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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6690787 03/01/17 01:54 AM
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Turtles, hogs, cormorants? OK.

Roadrunners, hawks? Nah...


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6690790 03/01/17 01:57 AM
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I shoot turtles because it's fun and because their turtles. The best ones are the females full of eggs, a very satisfying yellow colored mist floats away afterwards.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Aggieman775] #6690797 03/01/17 02:11 AM
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Roadrunners and hawks are hell on quail. That's why they should be shot on sight.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Erny] #6690801 03/01/17 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Erny
You saw a turtle catch and eat a bass?


They have fast turtles in Pittsburg TX.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Erny] #6690805 03/01/17 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Erny
You saw a turtle catch and eat a bass?


Baby bass meaning just hatched off of the bed. Fry and fingerling size


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6690893 03/01/17 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Aggieman775


That's the reason fish eating turtles. I am a fisherman and I have killed my fair share of turtles because they were over populated in my cove and competing with the fish. Also seen them eating baby bass so that's why I shoot them. But a road runner? What does that do to anything accept worms?


They eat snakes. I like snakes.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6690895 03/01/17 03:10 AM
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I don't think I'd shoot a roadrunner, but there is no doubt they're hell on baby quail and horned toads


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #6690941 03/01/17 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
I don't think I'd shoot a roadrunner, but there is no doubt they're hell on baby quail and horned toads


They are pretty cool critters. Sometimes, on location, we have them pay us a visit. I've seen them rummage through toolboxes and perch on pickup mirrors.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691015 03/01/17 04:29 AM
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Burros
Not so much a problem in Texas but in the western states they are a scourge. The Feds decided in the 70's they and feral horses need to be protected, the tree huggers think they are native species! Oh, they are so cute. A major cull is in order.
Burros foul the waterholes and drive off native animals, generally nasty creatures.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: MClark] #6691113 03/01/17 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: MClark
Burros
Not so much a problem in Texas but in the western states they are a scourge. The Feds decided in the 70's they and feral horses need to be protected, the tree huggers think they are native species! Oh, they are so cute. A major cull is in order.
Burros foul the waterholes and drive off native animals, generally nasty creatures.


Amen. Those jokers were everywhere during my AZ sheep hunt in 2014. Why they are not simply eradicated is a mystery to me.



Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691130 03/01/17 01:35 PM
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Protection of Dolphins(they need thinning)and baiting for migratory(if you have to stop at 6 why does it matter)


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Eland Slayer] #6691134 03/01/17 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: Stub
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
The regulation (or set of regulations rather) I would change would be to implement a system whereby...when a piece of land (regardless of size) is high fenced, all of the animals within the confines of that fence (regardless of whether they are native or non-native) become the property of the landowner to do with as he wishes (with the exception of endangered/protected species). This should also include the ability to trap/sell/hunt/cull/shoot whatever game species are on the property (including Whitetail Deer) without any regulations whatsoever (no seasons, no bag limits, no restrictions). Let the landowner decide how to best manage his property/herd. Much of southern Africa operates this way, and they have thriving herds of native game managed this way.

I know this will not be popular with many of you, but so be it....it is my opinion. Carry on duel


I have nothing against high fence, have hunted behind two of them!

But why would you give such blatant powers to High Fence only?
I get it that theoretically nothing should come in or out of a HF, so if they shoot everything up their tough chit or they can buy more animals. What if they do not have that kind of money anymore? Lower the fence to let the free range game in for now then raise fence and shoot them up?

Quite a while back my X brother in law who has a HF place bought a bunch of free range doe from the nail ranch that were netted by helicopter. So what's to stop a rich person behind a HF from shooting all of his and continue to buy captured free range deer and deplete the supply of those free range deer in any given area?

I am talking only native (indigenous) game animals like White tail deer, dove ,quail etc.
Exotics, hogs, yotes etc. shoot all you want whenever wherever up



I'm happy to elaborate....and there are perfectly logical answers to all of your questions.

1) Why give these "blatant powers" to high fence only? Simple....because a high fenced property is a closed system (or at least should be for the most part) that requires more control and intensive management to manage properly. In this situation, the landowner usually knows better than anyone, what needs to be done to properly manage the animals on his land. Now in theory, this is why they have the MLD program for Whitetail Deer (to more intensively manage your herd). Unfortunately, there is also a certain level of politics involved....each TPDW biologist basically has full authority over who gets approved for the MLD program in their area, and often times they are EXTREMELY biased and irrational in their implementation of this authority. (A good friend of mine owns a high fenced property with only Whitetails on it....and his biologist flat out told him that if he put one single exotic animal of any kind on it, he would kick him off MLD...which is utter BS)

2) You cannot just "lower the fence and let the free range game in". That's called "trapping" and it's illegal to trap Whitetail Deer without a permit.

3) Similarly to the above point, nobody can just trap or net deer from a helicopter. You must first obtain a TTT permit and those permits are only approved by the state for taking EXCESS deer. In other words, they are not depleting the free range deer, they are taking the extras to an area with fewer deer.


Good response Wade up

One would think that it would be easier to manage a HF property because for the most part you know what animals you have and what it takes to manage them versus a LF property where you have so many more variables on what is coming in and out of your property and how to effectively game plan for it scratch


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691471 03/01/17 06:07 PM
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Red Snapper season should be number 1

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6691679 03/01/17 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: MClark
Burros
Not so much a problem in Texas but in the western states they are a scourge. The Feds decided in the 70's they and feral horses need to be protected, the tree huggers think they are native species! Oh, they are so cute. A major cull is in order.
Burros foul the waterholes and drive off native animals, generally nasty creatures.


Amen. Those jokers were everywhere during my AZ sheep hunt in 2014. Why they are not simply eradicated is a mystery to me.



The documentary Unbranded talks about this and is are ally good watch, it's on Netflix.


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Stub] #6691706 03/01/17 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stub
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
The regulation (or set of regulations rather) I would change would be to implement a system whereby...when a piece of land (regardless of size) is high fenced, all of the animals within the confines of that fence (regardless of whether they are native or non-native) become the property of the landowner to do with as he wishes (with the exception of endangered/protected species). This should also include the ability to trap/sell/hunt/cull/shoot whatever game species are on the property (including Whitetail Deer) without any regulations whatsoever (no seasons, no bag limits, no restrictions). Let the landowner decide how to best manage his property/herd. Much of southern Africa operates this way, and they have thriving herds of native game managed this way.

I know this will not be popular with many of you, but so be it....it is my opinion. Carry on duel


I have nothing against high fence, have hunted behind two of them!

But why would you give such blatant powers to High Fence only?
I get it that theoretically nothing should come in or out of a HF, so if they shoot everything up their tough chit or they can buy more animals. What if they do not have that kind of money anymore? Lower the fence to let the free range game in for now then raise fence and shoot them up?

Quite a while back my X brother in law who has a HF place bought a bunch of free range doe from the nail ranch that were netted by helicopter. So what's to stop a rich person behind a HF from shooting all of his and continue to buy captured free range deer and deplete the supply of those free range deer in any given area?

I am talking only native (indigenous) game animals like White tail deer, dove ,quail etc.
Exotics, hogs, yotes etc. shoot all you want whenever wherever up


I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure.

Last edited by huntwest; 03/01/17 09:21 PM.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: huntwest] #6691840 03/01/17 11:02 PM
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[/quote]
I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure. [/quot]

I think this a very interesting idea. Valid points!

Last edited by PKnTX; 03/01/17 11:08 PM.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691846 03/01/17 11:05 PM
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And what would that per deer fee be?

And how would you accurately count them?


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691855 03/01/17 11:12 PM
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If I'm not mistaken the cost of wild game is often
figured by the state when restitution is needed.

And population surveys are done all the time.

I like this idea more and more.

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: PKnTX] #6691869 03/01/17 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: PKnTX
[/quote]
I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure. [/quot]

I think this a very interesting idea. Valid points!


The price per deer better be cheaper than the cheapest stocker whitetails from a breeder. Otherwise the landowners will invite everyone they know over to hunt the place into the ground prior to putting up the fence. That would ruin it for the neighbors more so than just letting them fence in the animals.

I agree with the earlier comments though. Once a fence is up I could care less what they do to the game on the other side of it. Those animals are no longer available to everyone around so what difference does it make if they wipe them all out in one year?

Last edited by rexmitchell; 03/01/17 11:26 PM.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: txtrophy85] #6691876 03/01/17 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
And what would that per deer fee be?

And how would you accurately count them?


The fee would be the exact same fee the state puts on deer when someone poaches one. They claim that is the costs of raising that deer. It is a in house published list. go to the TPWD site and look under Pentax ties and restitution it will explain it to you.The fee does not include the law breaking penalties just the animal cost.

You count them using aerial counting in the winter when the foliage is the least. That is the way deer are counted. It isn't 100% accurate but you would be amazed at how close the pros get to the number.

This would work and raise some money for the state.
Of course existing hf ranches would not be included only going forward. If a guy doesn't want the deer put up the fence and get them out. That can be done also.
A large amount of high fence ranches cull and get numbers right and add breeder bucks but use native deer does. Why should they get those for free?


Last edited by huntwest; 03/01/17 11:33 PM.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691892 03/01/17 11:38 PM
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Direct from TPWD site

Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: huntwest] #6691896 03/01/17 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: huntwest
Originally Posted By: Stub
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
The regulation (or set of regulations rather) I would change would be to implement a system whereby...when a piece of land (regardless of size) is high fenced, all of the animals within the confines of that fence (regardless of whether they are native or non-native) become the property of the landowner to do with as he wishes (with the exception of endangered/protected species). This should also include the ability to trap/sell/hunt/cull/shoot whatever game species are on the property (including Whitetail Deer) without any regulations whatsoever (no seasons, no bag limits, no restrictions). Let the landowner decide how to best manage his property/herd. Much of southern Africa operates this way, and they have thriving herds of native game managed this way.

I know this will not be popular with many of you, but so be it....it is my opinion. Carry on duel


I have nothing against high fence, have hunted behind two of them!

But why would you give such blatant powers to High Fence only?
I get it that theoretically nothing should come in or out of a HF, so if they shoot everything up their tough chit or they can buy more animals. What if they do not have that kind of money anymore? Lower the fence to let the free range game in for now then raise fence and shoot them up?

Quite a while back my X brother in law who has a HF place bought a bunch of free range doe from the nail ranch that were netted by helicopter. So what's to stop a rich person behind a HF from shooting all of his and continue to buy captured free range deer and deplete the supply of those free range deer in any given area?

I am talking only native (indigenous) game animals like White tail deer, dove ,quail etc.
Exotics, hogs, yotes etc. shoot all you want whenever wherever up


I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure.


I understand where you're coming from....but I will respectfully have to disagree. Just because the fence is taller, it does not mean the high fenced ranch is keeping any more of those deer away from their neighbors than a low fenced ranch....it just happens to be the same deer all the time instead of an ever-changing population of deer that are roaming from property to property.

To put it another way, if that ranch was low fenced instead of high fenced, you still would not have the ability to hunt those deer that live on the low fenced ranch....yet nobody is asking for the low fenced rancher to pay for any deer.


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Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Eland Slayer] #6691949 03/02/17 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: huntwest
Originally Posted By: Stub
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
The regulation (or set of regulations rather) I would change would be to implement a system whereby...when a piece of land (regardless of size) is high fenced, all of the animals within the confines of that fence (regardless of whether they are native or non-native) become the property of the landowner to do with as he wishes (with the exception of endangered/protected species). This should also include the ability to trap/sell/hunt/cull/shoot whatever game species are on the property (including Whitetail Deer) without any regulations whatsoever (no seasons, no bag limits, no restrictions). Let the landowner decide how to best manage his property/herd. Much of southern Africa operates this way, and they have thriving herds of native game managed this way.

I know this will not be popular with many of you, but so be it....it is my opinion. Carry on duel


I have nothing against high fence, have hunted behind two of them!

But why would you give such blatant powers to High Fence only?
I get it that theoretically nothing should come in or out of a HF, so if they shoot everything up their tough chit or they can buy more animals. What if they do not have that kind of money anymore? Lower the fence to let the free range game in for now then raise fence and shoot them up?

Quite a while back my X brother in law who has a HF place bought a bunch of free range doe from the nail ranch that were netted by helicopter. So what's to stop a rich person behind a HF from shooting all of his and continue to buy captured free range deer and deplete the supply of those free range deer in any given area?

I am talking only native (indigenous) game animals like White tail deer, dove ,quail etc.
Exotics, hogs, yotes etc. shoot all you want whenever wherever up


I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure.


I understand where you're coming from....but I will respectfully have to disagree. Just because the fence is taller, it does not mean the high fenced ranch is keeping any more of those deer away from their neighbors than a low fenced ranch....it just happens to be the same deer all the time instead of an ever-changing population of deer that are roaming from property to property.

To put it another way, if that ranch was low fenced instead of high fenced, you still would not have the ability to hunt those deer that live on the low fenced ranch....yet nobody is asking for the low fenced rancher to pay for any deer.


Sounds just like a high fence arguement. You say it doesn't change the numbers but it does your arguement doesn't hold water. I can't even respectfully disagree with you on your point as it doesn't even make sense. If you have a high fence ranch it alters the natural ebb and flow of the deer herd. You also want complete ownership of the animals but don't want to pay for them because they could escape. Well anybody that owns cattle can say the same thing. And a high fence if kept up will keep 99% of the deer in so your disagreement doesn't hold water.
If you or anyone else are going to capture one single native whitetail that cannot free range it is now not available to other hunters period. See I don't have any problem with high fences or how you treat your land, my problem is the free deer.
Then after you get those deer you ask for and many times receive permits to kill the fire out of them to bet YOUR deer herd numbers balanced. So basically the HF has created too small of an environment and have to kill more than the county limit to keep from over crowding. This is especially true on the Up to about 1000 acre places.

Last edited by huntwest; 03/02/17 12:20 AM.
Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: Eland Slayer] #6691971 03/02/17 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: huntwest
Originally Posted By: Stub
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
The regulation (or set of regulations rather) I would change would be to implement a system whereby...when a piece of land (regardless of size) is high fenced, all of the animals within the confines of that fence (regardless of whether they are native or non-native) become the property of the landowner to do with as he wishes (with the exception of endangered/protected species). This should also include the ability to trap/sell/hunt/cull/shoot whatever game species are on the property (including Whitetail Deer) without any regulations whatsoever (no seasons, no bag limits, no restrictions). Let the landowner decide how to best manage his property/herd. Much of southern Africa operates this way, and they have thriving herds of native game managed this way.

I know this will not be popular with many of you, but so be it....it is my opinion. Carry on duel


I have nothing against high fence, have hunted behind two of them!

But why would you give such blatant powers to High Fence only?
I get it that theoretically nothing should come in or out of a HF, so if they shoot everything up their tough chit or they can buy more animals. What if they do not have that kind of money anymore? Lower the fence to let the free range game in for now then raise fence and shoot them up?

Quite a while back my X brother in law who has a HF place bought a bunch of free range doe from the nail ranch that were netted by helicopter. So what's to stop a rich person behind a HF from shooting all of his and continue to buy captured free range deer and deplete the supply of those free range deer in any given area?

I am talking only native (indigenous) game animals like White tail deer, dove ,quail etc.
Exotics, hogs, yotes etc. shoot all you want whenever wherever up


I have a little different take. Regardless of the acreage if a person wants to high fence that person has to pay the state one time for every deer they fence out of the free range. If someone poaches a deer they get charged a fee for that deer, I think someone that high fences should have to pay the same fee. The landowner would be responsible for doing a fly over survey after the fence is up and would be billed for the animals he has entrapped. After that I think eland slayers idea is fine. But only AFTER the person high fencing the ranch buys the deer.
Although I am definitely not pro poacher I find it ironic that if I shoot a deer off someones property I am fined and have to pay a fee for the deer yet someone can put up a high fence and get all he can trap for free. And it is BS that high fences don't trap deer. They do it one time for sure.


I understand where you're coming from....but I will respectfully have to disagree. Just because the fence is taller, it does not mean the high fenced ranch is keeping any more of those deer away from their neighbors than a low fenced ranch....it just happens to be the same deer all the time instead of an ever-changing population of deer that are roaming from property to property.

To put it another way, if that ranch was low fenced instead of high fenced, you still would not have the ability to hunt those deer that live on the low fenced ranch....yet nobody is asking for the low fenced rancher to pay for any deer.


I can't believe you said that with a straight face. Perhaps the most frustrating thing about HF proponents - they want everybody to act like it's not there. Own it, just own it. Sheesh.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: If You Could Change One Game Law, What Would It Be and Why [Re: BenBob] #6691984 03/02/17 12:43 AM
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Txhunter65 Offline
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Well this isn't a game law but how about we change the law that allows politicians to use $ generated by sportsman in the general fund instead of it being used for the betterment of fish and wildlife in this state.

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