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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: 91cavgt]
#6665098
02/07/17 03:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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I'm a bus driver and a CHL holder. I do not carry when I drive but I wish I could. The school buses are sitting ducks. Very soft targets. 60 kids confined to a very small space with zero protection. With proper training I am good with teachers and staff carrying.
Several of us from church went out to shoot when our security team was being formed. It was unnerving as to how many so called gun people could not handle their firearm. While I'm not the best shot in the world, at least I hit the target every time. Training is key, and it needs to be both classroom and range time on an ongoing basis. To me this is like dangers of hobby pilots. I don't want a armed hobbyist armed trying to protect my kids. If you watched some of that Dallas terrorist shooting video you could see that the average cop doesn't have much of a chance against even a semi-trained killer. If this were to be implemented I would want teacher/guard to be a full time guard and not just a teacher with a little extra training.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: mattyg06]
#6665195
02/07/17 04:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 16,757
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I'm a bus driver and a CHL holder. I do not carry when I drive but I wish I could. The school buses are sitting ducks. Very soft targets. 60 kids confined to a very small space with zero protection. With proper training I am good with teachers and staff carrying.
Several of us from church went out to shoot when our security team was being formed. It was unnerving as to how many so called gun people could not handle their firearm. While I'm not the best shot in the world, at least I hit the target every time. Training is key, and it needs to be both classroom and range time on an ongoing basis. To me this is like dangers of hobby pilots. I don't want a armed hobbyist armed trying to protect my kids. If you watched some of that Dallas terrorist shooting video you could see that the average cop doesn't have much of a chance against even a semi-trained killer. If this were to be implemented I would want teacher/guard to be a full time guard and not just a teacher with a little extra training. I couldn't agree more. My wife is a teacher and in no circumstance would I want her to be armed (I love her but she's not capable, and no amount of training would fix it). I feel we would lose more people to misuse of the firearm-accidental discharges, unauthorized user getting control of the weapon, etc.-than we would to bandits coming armed to campuses and causing trouble.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6665283
02/07/17 05:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,689
Marc K
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I see value in an armed teacher for hunkering down to protect "their" children in a lock down situation. Not running around the campus on a search and destroy mission. Bad guy forces his way in, teacher has something more than a sharp pencil to work with.
Again, Rules of Engagement are the critical component in this.
Specifically, I see it as a potential volunteer position by people who already have a carry permit - and are dedicated and willing to undergo more rigorous training and re qualification on a regular basis.
We live in an ever more violent world, where so many people have lost the perceived value of life itself.
Marc
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: TxHunter80]
#6665301
02/07/17 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68,098
SnakeWrangler
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My wife is a teacher, my mother was a teacher, her mother is a teacher-you get the idea. My wife has a CHL but I don't think that makes her anywhere near qualified to defend a campus. I like the idea of having few qualified people on every campus carrying. By qualified, I mean extensive training and frequent refreshers/additional training. A teachers primary responsibility during a crisis is to lock and barricade their doors and hunker down with their kids. You can't have a bunch of poorly trained, armed teachers running around a campus while law enforcement is trying to respond. I would think it would probably work better with principals, counselors, admin, etc. because they don't actually have classes filled students. I believe having a firearm ready to defend the classroom in this scenario is what most people are talking about....not forming a team of armed teachers to sweep and clear school buildings.....defensive...not offensive.....shelter in place and wait for law enforcement to arrive and clear the building..... 
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#6665354
02/07/17 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 728
TxHunter80
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My wife is a teacher, my mother was a teacher, her mother is a teacher-you get the idea. My wife has a CHL but I don't think that makes her anywhere near qualified to defend a campus. I like the idea of having few qualified people on every campus carrying. By qualified, I mean extensive training and frequent refreshers/additional training. A teachers primary responsibility during a crisis is to lock and barricade their doors and hunker down with their kids. You can't have a bunch of poorly trained, armed teachers running around a campus while law enforcement is trying to respond. I would think it would probably work better with principals, counselors, admin, etc. because they don't actually have classes filled students. I believe having a firearm ready to defend the classroom in this scenario is what most people are talking about....not forming a team of armed teachers to sweep and clear school buildings.....defensive...not offensive.....shelter in place and wait for law enforcement to arrive and clear the building.....  Yes, that would make sense. I have no doubt my wife would be all for something like that. However, there is no way it could ever be a mandatory requirement. It's always good to be proactive but it's sad that these scenerios must be even entertained. Attacking schools and children is about as low as it gets.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: mattyg06]
#6665494
02/07/17 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674
91cavgt
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I'm a bus driver and a CHL holder. I do not carry when I drive but I wish I could. The school buses are sitting ducks. Very soft targets. 60 kids confined to a very small space with zero protection. With proper training I am good with teachers and staff carrying.
Several of us from church went out to shoot when our security team was being formed. It was unnerving as to how many so called gun people could not handle their firearm. While I'm not the best shot in the world, at least I hit the target every time. Training is key, and it needs to be both classroom and range time on an ongoing basis. To me this is like dangers of hobby pilots. I don't want a armed hobbyist armed trying to protect my kids. If you watched some of that Dallas terrorist shooting video you could see that the average cop doesn't have much of a chance against even a semi-trained killer. If this were to be implemented I would want teacher/guard to be a full time guard and not just a teacher with a little extra training. So you would rather have teachers, administrators, and bus drivers be disarmed should there be an attack. Got it. If I am going to die in an attack, at least give me the option of giving the kids a fighting chance of living instead of just laying over to accept death.
God has a plan and something special in mind for all of us. Do you know the direction that God wants to send you?
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6665595
02/07/17 09:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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I personally don't assume I am safe because I am armed or that I am unsafe because I don't happen to have a gun on me. But I was actually agreeing with your comment below. It was unnerving as to how many so called gun people could not handle their firearm. It would be very scary for me as a parent to know my kid's teacher was strapped and didn't have adequate training to use the firearm appropriately. Unless you are a trained on a military-like level and practice on a daily basis you probably aren't prepared to go toe to toe with a terrorist, who doesn't care about his own life,who is probably wearing body armor and has an AR-15 with nothing but a side arm yourself. As I said go watch footage of that Dallas terror attack and see what can happen to even a well trained police officer in a situation. I just have a hard time believing a teacher who would be a part time guard would fare better than a well trained police officer when faced with such a situation.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: mattyg06]
#6665855
02/08/17 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674
91cavgt
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I personally don't assume I am safe because I am armed or that I am unsafe because I don't happen to have a gun on me. But I was actually agreeing with your comment below. It was unnerving as to how many so called gun people could not handle their firearm. It would be very scary for me as a parent to know my kid's teacher was strapped and didn't have adequate training to use the firearm appropriately. Unless you are a trained on a military-like level and practice on a daily basis you probably aren't prepared to go toe to toe with a terrorist, who doesn't care about his own life,who is probably wearing body armor and has an AR-15 with nothing but a side arm yourself. As I said go watch footage of that Dallas terror attack and see what can happen to even a well trained police officer in a situation. I just have a hard time believing a teacher who would be a part time guard would fare better than a well trained police officer when faced with such a situation. Ok, cool. In a perfect world I agree with you. But the phrase "when seconds count police are minutes away" holds true. The only way I would be comfortable with staff carrying is if there was a lot of training. I'm not a bad shot, but I too could use more training. Just the fact that staff could be carrying changes a school from no longer being a soft target and would help to prevent mass shootings at schools.
God has a plan and something special in mind for all of us. Do you know the direction that God wants to send you?
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: TxHunter80]
#6666032
02/08/17 01:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68,098
SnakeWrangler
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My wife is a teacher, my mother was a teacher, her mother is a teacher-you get the idea. My wife has a CHL but I don't think that makes her anywhere near qualified to defend a campus. I like the idea of having few qualified people on every campus carrying. By qualified, I mean extensive training and frequent refreshers/additional training. A teachers primary responsibility during a crisis is to lock and barricade their doors and hunker down with their kids. You can't have a bunch of poorly trained, armed teachers running around a campus while law enforcement is trying to respond. I would think it would probably work better with principals, counselors, admin, etc. because they don't actually have classes filled students. I believe having a firearm ready to defend the classroom in this scenario is what most people are talking about....not forming a team of armed teachers to sweep and clear school buildings.....defensive...not offensive.....shelter in place and wait for law enforcement to arrive and clear the building.....  Yes, that would make sense. I have no doubt my wife would be all for something like that. However, there is no way it could ever be a mandatory requirement. It's always good to be proactive but it's sad that these scenerios must be even entertained. Attacking schools and children is about as low as it gets. Target rich environment where minimal effort can achieve maximum results....terrorist/whacko paradise.... same as any "gun free zone".....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6666166
02/08/17 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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I have seen men that have went through 8 weeks of basic training, and the 10 weeks of advanced Infantry training. Then make the trip to the combat zone and freeze up at the start of the first firefight. I would rather see one proven person than a handful of people that have no clue no what they will do if the SHTF.
Anyone can be trained to hit the target and eventually do a great job of consistently hitting the bulls eye. But when under an extreme pressure situation, the whole scenario can become a FUBAR.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Marc K]
#6666239
02/08/17 03:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991
okie44
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I see value in an armed teacher for hunkering down to protect "their" children in a lock down situation. Not running around the campus on a search and destroy mission. Bad guy forces his way in, teacher has something more than a sharp pencil to work with.
We live in an ever more violent world, where so many people have lost the perceived value of life itself.
Marc Agreed
�The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.� Mark Twain
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6666292
02/08/17 04:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,264
Grizz
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I support the principle of armed teachers as long as they receive the proper training and vetting. They need to have the ability and the will to do what needs to be done. I have had a lot of people ask me over the years about my opinion of whether or not they should carry a firearm. My first question is generally whether or not they are willing to shoot a bad guy in the face if necessary, and you might be shocked at the number of people who say no. Most of them say if they just point a gun at the bad guy it should resolve the problem. Those people have no business carrying a firearm. Most people can be trained to hit a bulls eye target, some can't be trained to shoot another person under any circumstances. That would not help anyone in a school shooting scenario.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: MS1454]
#6666370
02/08/17 12:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,593
RedRanger
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As long as they don't have a criminal record which prohibits them, then I am good with it.
I think they need to do some training on the range like police officers do. Like police officers do? From what I hear from officers, people that have trained officers they are not required to do much shooting and the ones that they have seen shoot are pretty bad. I would hope they would be better trained shooters then police officers. I am sure it tougher and probably they have to go yearly also. I would trust a police officer shot any day of joe blow off the street. With a CHL you are shooting like a few feet in front of you, which is the stupid part of CHL in my opinion.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6666404
02/08/17 01:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Those of you who just think folks carrying makes a situation safer have a lot to learn about the real world. Thise with actual experience in these matters are the ones to listen to.
Proper training and proven competency? Yes. A bunch of basically untrained folks who passed the LTC course? No.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6666518
02/08/17 03:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,620
redchevy
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How long you think it would be before someone's precious little angle swiped one of the teachers guns and causes a ruckus?
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: redchevy]
#6667167
02/08/17 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68,098
SnakeWrangler
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How long you think it would be before someone's precious little angle swiped one of the teachers guns and causes a ruckus? If they are carrying concealed as they should be then: 1) the students shouldn't know if they are armed or not. 2) If the students get access to a concealed and carried firearm then they are doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first place. 3) I guess people who carry out or at work loose their firearms all the time...I guess they fall into the hands of co-workers or complete strangers... 
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6667525
02/09/17 01:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,273
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on.
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: A.B.]
#6667652
02/09/17 03:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68,098
SnakeWrangler
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on. Nuff said.....and the single greatest protection for those kids is the fact that the bad guys know guns could (and most likely are) there in the school....no longer a gun free zone.......no longer as attractive a target......
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#6667690
02/09/17 03:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 991
okie44
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on. Nuff said.....and the single greatest protection for those kids is the fact that the bad guys know guns could (and most likely are) there in the school....no longer a gun free zone.......no longer as attractive a target...... 
�The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right.� Mark Twain
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: A.B.]
#6667789
02/09/17 04:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on. And you would have zero issues with training. Some would.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: mustafa]
#6667884
02/09/17 01:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,041
texretvet
THF Trophy Hunter
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Texas public schools don't drug test. If teacher passed a drug test I wouldn't have an issue with them carrying. I have always found it funny that they don't take a drug test. My wife teaches 1st grade and I have been telling her for years that she should start using cocaine.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: texretvet]
#6668592
02/09/17 10:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,630
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,630 |
Texas public schools don't drug test. If teacher passed a drug test I wouldn't have an issue with them carrying. I have always found it funny that they don't take a drug test. My wife teaches 1st grade and I have been telling her for years that she should start using cocaine. This is misleading. Some districts do test teachers/employees, all bus drivers are tested, annually and randomly. That includes the majority of coaches, sponsors, etc.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#6668879
02/10/17 01:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 13,186
bucksnbass357
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on. Nuff said.....and the single greatest protection for those kids is the fact that the bad guys know guns could (and most likely are) there in the school....no longer a gun free zone.......no longer as attractive a target...... Exactly. The pathetic cowards that perpetrate these school shootings are counting on it being a " gun free " zone. I personally believe that all schools should have 2-3 LEO's on site during all school hours. Carve out whatever needs to be carved out of the budget to pay for it, and these school shootings will likely stop. Barring that, you bet I would be willing to take the chance on an armed, or preferably several armed teachers, coaches or principles on site at the moment of attack, rather than give these cowards the ability to kill and maim until the cavalry shows up and stops the threat.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: bucksnbass357]
#6669363
02/10/17 03:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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Fellas, I ain't much of an authority, and I have no training, but I can shoot straight and I would walk through the fires of hell on Sunday for my kids. If all my 950 kids got between them and a bad guy, is me, well the bad guy is in for a fight.
Carry on. Nuff said.....and the single greatest protection for those kids is the fact that the bad guys know guns could (and most likely are) there in the school....no longer a gun free zone.......no longer as attractive a target...... Exactly. The pathetic cowards that perpetrate these school shootings are counting on it being a " gun free " zone. I personally believe that all schools should have 2-3 LEO's on site during all school hours. Carve out whatever needs to be carved out of the budget to pay for it, and these school shootings will likely stop. Barring that, you bet I would be willing to take the chance on an armed, or preferably several armed teachers, coaches or principles on site at the moment of attack, rather than give these cowards the ability to kill and maim until the cavalry shows up and stops the threat. So why should we just settle for using teachers as part time security guards rather than hire full time properly trained LEO? I guess that is my biggest problem. I see using teachers as a cheap compromise versus paying up and allocating the proper resources to combat this problem if it requires such a solution. Just because schools are 'gun free zones' doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any guns present on the campus either. Don't most Public ISDs have their own police departments? Maybe we are just wasteful with our resources and spend them on massively expensive athletic stadiums vs adequate protection for our kids. Think about this McKinney ISD just spend close to $63 Million on a football stadium. They have 29 campuses including elementary through high school. Instead of wasting that money on something un-necessary like the stadium they could have paid for 3 full time LEO to be stationed at each school $75k/year each for the next 10 years.
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Re: Should teachers be armed???
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#6669430
02/10/17 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 68,098
SnakeWrangler
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Our schools already have LEO's on campus.....and our teachers/administrators are allowed to CC....I'm thankful for it... 
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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