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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Re: Lease Prices
[Re: o2bwest]
#644838
03/24/09 10:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 715
prohunter08
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 715 |
yea it will if these days and times get to the land owners.And they will have to adjust to that also just like we do.Some of the greedy land owners will have to come back down to earth.And the ones that dont will not lease there land,and hunters should nego the price with the land owner and quit paying over 1500.00 a gun period.and just walk away from anything over that amount we are doing it to ourselfs if you want to beleave it or not.And dont say we are not.just quit paying the price and we will see prices drop.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rstewlandman]
#644839
03/24/09 11:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Quote:
x2 the little man never looks at the true value of land, the rich man always gets the big chunks of land for free...I thought you knew that! lol
Fact is even if someone were to inherit the land, it still has value as an asset, even if it were valued at 1 mil and it was paid for, its still an investment where returns are expected, I think the returns are typically better in other places, like rental property...usually the Stock Market, which has averaged 11.8 % since inception. so figure the land owner investing the million somewhere else at 6% and thats 60K a year....It would take ALOT of work to make a return of 60K on 1 million dollars worth of ranch in any part of the state...so are they greedy...NOPE...are they investors...USUALLY... 
Some parts of the state, yes....other parts of the state no...
Think about this ROI:
(roughly speaking)
300acres x $1000/acre = $300K
20% down would be $60K
$560K on timber cut from property
After paying the place off (and before paying Uncle Sam) theres a good deal of profit in a matter of months if the timber is ready.
Spend a little of the profit to replant and occassionally spray for another good chunk of change 25-30yrs down the road (if the market doesn't completely bottom out). Or slap a $1M price tag on it after cutting it and see if there are any takers.
Places like that can be found, but you need to look in places where the majority of people in the area cannot afford them..and owners refuse to divide.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rifleman]
#644840
03/24/09 11:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
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where you gettin land at 1000 per acre prior to a cut? your not, you may get it after a cut, then you looking at replanting, and waiting 15 years for a first thinning if your lucky then 30 years to payout, granted you'll have some appreciation in that 30 years and will make money on timber but I bet it won't average 6% per year
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: prohunter08]
#644841
03/24/09 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,265
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 9,265 |
I've been thinking the price of leases would tank along with the economy. But, I guess everything isn't relative.
I don't know of a land owner who wouldn't lease his land unless he had to. Again, I'm not talking about the big boys. Heck, I don't know any of them anyway. The ones who live there would rather have the solitude. They need the $ or they wouldn't do it. I've been watching the tricked out black gun/Glock mania on this site. I don't know of a Rancher who owns one. They wouldn't consider spending that kind of $ for a gun. And, most of the Hunters drive nicer vehicles than they do.
If you think about it, there's a lot of difference in what we can write checks for and what we can afford.
Hoytman, I like 47 acre places. I have killed my biggest buck on a 24 acre place that was situated between 2 big places. And, I understand about the Kids. However, I see a lot of Kids with expensive video game players. Maybe their Parents need to look at value systems.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rstewlandman]
#644842
03/24/09 11:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I'm not personally, but someone very near and dear to me has...actually it was $925/acre (the 300)... the neighbors that have 400acres are wanting $1150/acre.... but will only get about the same amount of timber since there is a lot more pasture land. It can be found (usually out in BFE).. but you are right that it might not average out to 6%/year, but that is a good bit of pocket change right from the start to put towards having a house paid off/building a house, etc.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Hoytman]
#644843
03/25/09 12:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,214
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,214 |
Quote:
My point is for most of us the leases are getting to be unaffordable to the little guy like me. I would love to be able to buy 1000 acres to hunt and live but my budget only alowed 47acers and a 200 mile round trip everyday so my kids could grow up in the country and get a little hunting in. If we all were millionaires leases would be in the millions instead of thousands and i probably still couldnt afford it. 
47 acres is something to be proud of!!!
Becuase one day you will walk out on it and say I own this free and clear. Thats more then 99 percent of America can say.
you have to start some where 
I don't think there is a person in the US that thinks they have enough land.... I was wondering how long it would take me to spend 128 million if I won the lottery a couple weeks ago... guessing about 20 minutes  and would probley be wondering how i was going to buy the niebhors place next
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rifleman]
#644844
03/25/09 12:40 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
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Posts: 3,056 |
your telling me someone sold land with timber for 925 an acre for 300 acres then the buyer turned the timber in to half a million???? and you know of 400 acres for 1150 and the timber would be worth half a mil or more? PM ME if I understand all this I'd buy that all day long, heck i could get a loan based on the timber apprasial.....I think someones been telling you lies but if its is true, and I've heard stranger things then for real hook your fellow THFer up with the scoop....location doesn't matter to me if it has the timber your talking about with that price
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rstewlandman]
#644845
03/25/09 01:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746 |
I am second in line! I know guys who will go in and buy land with mineral rights and all and then sell the land and pocket all the profits from the mineral and wind rights. Being a landman you should see some of that. This is mostly out of Texas.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Txduckman]
#644846
03/25/09 01:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056 |
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rstewlandman]
#644847
03/25/09 01:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
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I will say that it would be very dumb to sell you land for less than you could sell the timber for, but I will buy all you can find and cut you in on the profits as a finders fee
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: rstewlandman]
#644848
03/25/09 01:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746 |
Quote:
shhhhhh
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Txduckman]
#644849
03/25/09 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,063
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,063 |
Well guys, I'll step up on the soap box and get my bitchin' over with. So here it goes:
I'm all for the landowners making a little profit on their land, and I'm even willing to pay a little higher prices for quality hunting land to help them out. After all, I'd very much like to be a landowner someday, and I understand where they're coming from.
HOWEVER.....I'm finding some places that leave me scratching my head in utter conufusion. Let me explain. I found a place last week for lease that enfuriated me so much that I had to send the gentleman an e-mail to find out some additional information.
It was a 200 acre lease in Terrell County. He was asking for 4 guns at $4,500/gun. The land had no significant improvements. That is $90 per acre per year. I've researched land in Terrell County quite a bit and you cannot hunt a person to 50 acres, and $90 per acre is more than 20 times the normal going rate of a decent lease in Terrell County. If you were actually dumb enought to lease this man's property, after 3 years of leasing it.....you could have bought it, since land can be had in Terrell County for around $250/acre.
I asked the gentleman just why on God's green earth this piece of land was so special and demanded such an outrageous price. His reply was so ridiculous and rude I can't put it on here, as it is filled with foul language.
Okay.....I'm done. Thanks.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Txduckman]
#644850
03/25/09 02:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Quote:
I am second in line!
I know guys who will go in and buy land with mineral rights and all and then sell the land and pocket all the profits from the mineral and wind rights.
Being a landman you should see some of that. This is mostly out of Texas.
Have seen some of that... been a lot of oil rigs set up out around where we are from...seems to have exploded within the last 5 years.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#644851
03/25/09 02:18 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881
Cool_Hand
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881 |
Question!!! This hypothetical so try to be as accurate with an answer as you can!
You inherit some land...uhhhh lets say 2000 acres. What would you do with it? Oh, its in prime deer hunting country!!
 Benny Promise Ranch
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Cool_Hand]
#644852
03/25/09 03:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698
Hoytman
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698 |
Lease it for big bucks! JUST KIDDING!
(Sig Pic to be no more than 125 pixels tall)
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Hoytman]
#644853
03/25/09 03:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698
Hoytman
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698 |
By the way my parents got 50 acres in arkansas 3 years ago and made $25000 on the timber and didnt even clear cut it but its not good deer huntin. Guess ya gotta have some draw backs. Forgot to say they paid a little over $1000 a acre.
(Sig Pic to be no more than 125 pixels tall)
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Cool_Hand]
#644854
03/25/09 04:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,633
Longhorn95
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,633 |
Quote:
Question!!! This hypothetical so try to be as accurate with an answer as you can!
You inherit some land...uhhhh lets say 2000 acres. What would you do with it? Oh, its in prime deer hunting country!!
 Like if I were in the Coleman area? I'd lease out my hypothetical land and my wife and I will run our hypothetical eatery
I would very likely do exactly what you are doing.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: EastTxHunter1]
#644855
03/25/09 04:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,258
Txkiller
the terminator
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the terminator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,258 |
My neighbor from the NY swears up and down that prices will drop by august, I call B.S on that if Joe cant afford his lease this year guess what Tom with the money bag is going to pay what that land owner is wanting no matter what the economy is like
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Txkiller]
#644856
03/25/09 04:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
if i inherited 2000 acres in prime deer hunting area, i would more than likely lease out a few gun spots, but i would probably still hunt it, and probably try to lease it to my friends.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#644857
03/25/09 05:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,056
rstewlandman
Veteran Tracker
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4500 per gun and 4 guns on 200 acres is so stupid i wouldnt even respond to that....and 50 acres for 50k...yea maybe in arkansas.....but a 25k thinning is great! but we are talking texas, its a bit different here...On the mineral buy, its a rare find to go in on some land with minerals in tact and have no reservation, but it happens and there is a lot more risk involved, if it were producing there would be little risk but non producing minerals especially to the lamen. My opinion is to use real estate as an investment if I were to inherit a large tract I would make as much as I could off goats, get an ag exemption and pay taxes with that, hunt it and keep my day job...
the man at the top of the mountain didn't fall up it
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: o2bwest]
#644858
03/25/09 06:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,477
ggunn1
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,477 |
go ahead and fool yourself into thinking it aint gonna get no cheaper..there is a ground swell of outdoor enthusiusts that are priced out(or maybe prioritizing better)the price will drop in this economy...i love to hunt but i swear that if it does keep going up i will quit paying those ridiculous prices and put in for draw hunts and hunt corps land and public lands there are options.also will somebody please explain if you get the lease rights from an owner and u lease it out for the same amount like sig226fan was saying how in the heck are you gonna make money math doesnt work out,fella
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: ggunn1]
#644859
03/25/09 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719
cameron00
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,719 |
Sellers/providers will always tell you that prices aren't dropping. I'm in the market for some land right now and the selling realtors/sellers have all said the same thing: "I haven't noticed prices coming off a bit. Sure, the times are tough, but everyone is just putting money that they would have invested in the stock market into land." And then in the same breath they'll say something like, "Now, we're not seeing nearly the volume in sales, and if people want to sell they might have to lower their asking prices, but I haven't noticed land coming down much at all." It's really simple right now. People are hurting and have a lot less money then they did 2 years ago. Prices will come down. There may be a delay, but it will happen. It's already very obviously happened to rural land. If any of you look at www.landsoftexas.com, you can subscribe to receive automated updates on price changes. I get TONS of emails with price drops, and they're not insignificant. Some are upwards of 35% of previous asking prices.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Cool_Hand]
#644860
03/25/09 06:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,214
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 63,214 |
Quote:
Question!!! This hypothetical so try to be as accurate with an answer as you can!
You inherit some land...uhhhh lets say 2000 acres. What would you do with it? Oh, its in prime deer hunting country!!
Benny, I'd sell 2-5 package hunts a year (depending on range conditions and cattle market) to cover my feeding program... Also I'd try to find a way to never leave the property...I'm a hermit like that.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#644861
03/25/09 07:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,746 |
My buddy who is a realtor down in the hill country will flat out tell you the higher end properties have come to a complete halt. It was mainly baby boomers buying them and their buying power has been cut in half. The sellers won't budge on price and are living in a dream world. These are recreation properties mainly so there is little return on investment. All you can hope is the next person you sell to will pay more to get any money back. If you look at that lands of Tex site some properties been on there over a year. They have too many rediculous improvements for most buyers. They look like money pits and not investments to me. Raw land is the way to go so you can get some return on the cattle and hunting. Not much though unless you score a great deal which means you aren't buying listed properties.
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Re: Lease Prices
[Re: Txduckman]
#644862
03/25/09 08:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631 |
I know one big high end ranch that turned down offers last year that they would take in a minute today. I thought they were overvalued all along. On the other hand, I don't think the overall Texas real estate and investment market is as hard hit as other parts of the country, at least not yet. Land around my home is still selling at about the same rates as the last couple of years, but we are still outside the Dallas market.
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