A higher percentage of the pellets in a 410 have contact with the barrel and thus are more prone to deformation before leaving the barrel. The quality of the wad and shot can reduce deformation. The consequence is that the deformed pellets spread faster. That is true regardless of the choke.

In actual use, there is a world of difference between 28 and 410. A 7 1/2 pellet going 1200 fps has the same energy regardless of whether fired from a 12, 20, 28, or 410. There are just more pellets as the gauge is larger. The number of pellets and shot string length determine the density.

Also, the length of a 410's shot string tends to much longer than a 28 gauge. 12 and 28 have the shortest shot strings, then 20, and then 410.

yall are way to serious about all this. got a savage single shot 410 for xmas when i was 10, work well on jacks.
i found out that cutting the shell almost in half it shot like a rifle. and a 44special would allso work well.
well what do you expect i was only 10-11. so happy my dad never caught me at it.

Sorry.

I tend to get a little serious when someone says a post of mine is the "dumbest in the history of the THF."

My Dad (like many dads) gave me a single shot .410 at age 9 too. I loved that gun and had a lot of fun with it. I still have it. It means the world to me. That said, I would have killed a lot more game and had a lot more confidence in shooting a shotgun at that age if he had given me a 20 or 28 gauge.

Unfortunately, NP, you were given a gun with a full choke (most likely) and would have "killed a lot more game and had a lot more confidence in shooting a shotgun" had it been choked properly.

Once again, "You can't escape physics."

P_102

Opening up the choke on a shot pattern that is marginal in density to begin with solves nothing - only makes things worse. They are almost all full (and have been for over 100 years) for the reason stated above.

Marginal as compared to what? We have never tried to 'compare' the .410 to anything, just to show that it is much more capable than your original statement made it seem (and did not include anything about maybe being acceptable if used by an expert). As far as opening the choke, once again, as long as you leave enough shot in the pattern to be effective on the game you are after it solves the problem of having a smaller pattern that makes it difficult to hit your target.

P_102

Marginal for hunting game that is traditionally hunted with a shotgun. Marginal as compared to other gauges (the subject of the thread). Marginal period.

It is not "much more capable" than anything. It is a marginally (at best) capable hunting weapon for anything that hunting shotguns are normally used for - wingshooting doves/upland birds, squirrels, and rabbits pretty much covers the field. (Ducks, geese, coyotes, and deer don't even belong in a .410 discussion.)

If you are shooting rats or snakes at the very close ranges those shots are normally taken, the .410 works great.

"as long as you leave enough shot in the pattern" is the Achilles heel of the .410. There ain't enough shot in the shell to "leave enough in the pattern" except at very limited range.

I'll give you this: if one becomes proficient with the .410 with clays or skeet (as you apparently have), one has certainly greatly improved one's skill with the larger gauges that are much more suited to hunting live game. So it can certainly be a fun gun to practice and play around with if you are already proficient with a shotgun. But it's a terrible option for a beginner.

That's just my

Y'all have a great weekend.

Well, the information provided shows that a .410 (with mod. choke for example) puts 114 #7.5 pellets traveling 1200 fps in a 30 inch circle at 30 yards, (the other 35% of the pellets outside that). That is tremendously more capable than your blanket statement:

"The .410 is basically a popgun. Fun to play around with, but a marginal to useless game crippler unless shots are kept to extremely close ranges."

But that's just facts and physics. You have a good weekend also.

P_102

Still stand by my statement. You said it had limited range. Let's see the physics big guy!!!!!

I picked the 28 ga because it was the best of both worlds for me.
Lightweight and a good shot payload.
Plus I hit whatever I aim at mostly, which is a real plus while hunting grouse in the woods of the north east.
I didn't have that experience with my .410's and they weighed almost the same as my 28's.
In the end, I picked the gauge that was the most ethical at killing game at the distances I will take a shot.
Sure I could shoot a 410 at the same ranges, but my kill ratio with my 28's is double of the 410.

I'd personally go with a nice 20ga ou.

already got a great 20, went with the 28

Buzz, sounds like you got a very nice 28ga from the other thread. I like the 28 for dove and quail.

I'd take a 28 over a 410 any day.

You guys need to sit on a stock tank with tons of doves coming to water and holding a model 42, Winchester pump. It's not something you can argue about-it's just flat fun. It's a piece of fine machinery in you hands. Or a silver pigeon 28 shooting the Winchester sporting clay 81/2 shot. 1300 fps flat kills doves.

I'll shoot a 410 with anybody. It's not my "go to" but, I'll shoot with you. For the record tho, I've seen WAY dumber stuff written on here.

I do appreciate you recognizing me as the expert hunter I am.

It's a 20 +- 7.5 pellet difference.
You can tell who grew up shooting upland and who just read outdoor life.

SMH

Got my first bird dog at 8yrs.old, have hunted quail and dove for over 55 yrs. have used a Winchester o/u 410 for 30 of those yrs. used skeet/skeet for quail. I also have a win. o/u 410 that is mod./full. I use 3in.#8 for quail and 7 1/2 for dove. Hunted in Kansas for Pheasant for 9 yrs. and used @ 6 shot and had no problem getting my limit. Haven't ever owned a 12. that I hunted with, never felt I needed it. But each to their own!

Knew you'd be along to troll me. And with such an erroneous post to boot. 1/2 oz. 7.5 shot count = 175. 3/4 oz. 7.5 shot count = 262.

Can't believe it is even contoversial that the .410 is a marginal shotgun with significant limits. Talk about an "internet only" debate.

Not an Internet only debate.... some of us aren't typing off an article, I still use an over under 410 a lot of times for pheasants. If you want to make it a measuring contest, like you did with your irrelevant pm of deer heads, I own a 5th generation ranch in the panhandle... Want to take a wager on trigger time behind dogs?

11/16 has 242.

I would never call it a marginal shot gun, I would call it expensive to shoot, especially with steel. The allure to the 28ga is it patterns very wells and is light weight compared to the 20, 16 and 12. lots of guys in the migratory section that use 410.

Most 28 gauge loads are 3/4 oz.

In any event, 175+20 = 195. Time to go back under the bridge.

And my 410 loads are 11/16=+- 241. 3/4=+-262

262- 241= 21

Have fun under the bridge.

Me too!