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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934002
09/18/15 02:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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With N.A. big game of the non-dangerous variety on the menu, all the '06 based cartridges are versatile at ranges of 300 yards or less -- which is about what most hunters are capable of. I suppose you could say that the cartridges at each end of that range, the .25-06 and the .35 Whelen are slightly less flexible than those in the middle, the .270, .280, .30-06, and .338-06. If you were just looking to make an argument. Exactly my point. Midway only offers 54 bullets total in 25 cal, 81 for the 6.5, 100 for the 7mm, and 261 for the 30 cal. 25 cal is a one trick pony. Can you kill deer with it? Of course, but so can all the others. Forgive me if I'm not impressed. Heavy for caliber bullets require a fast twist. There is no getting around that. How nice would a round nose 150 grain 25 cal bullet have been? Or, dare I say it, higher bc 130-135 grainers for making those 400 yard wind calls a little more forgiving? When was the last time 25 calibers won major matches? Short range benchrest are dominated by 6mm and 30 cals. Mid and long range comps are dominated by 6mm, 6.5's, 7mm, and 30 cals. Silhouette shooting is all 6.5's and 7's. How much bullet development has gone into the 25 cals in the last 10 years? Crickets........... You do realize we are not talking about winning matches right? Do you realize not everyone wants to use the heaviest high bc bullet possible? How many bullet choices do you need to be happy? Did you realize if a .257 bullet weighed 140 grains it's bc would beat a 140 6.5? They don't, so don't worry you won't have to change to it. Give it a few years and something else will be winning matches and everyone will switch. Hunting deer to 300 yards just about any caliber will work fine. Shoot what you like and be happy. If using a 338 lupa makes you happy go for it. If a .25 makes you happy go for it. Just make sure you enjoy it. You don't even need a reason to like the ones you do. Don't be a caliber snob. Collect them all.
Last edited by bo323; 09/18/15 02:32 AM.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: bo3]
#5934053
09/18/15 02:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
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Do you realize not everyone wants to use the heaviest high bc bullet possible? How many bullet choices do you need to be happy? Did you realize if a .257 bullet weighed 140 grains it's bc would beat a 140 6.5? They don't, so don't worry you won't have to change to it. Give it a few years and something else will be winning matches and everyone will switch. I don't consider myself a caliber snob. If nosler released a 25 cal 140 grain partitian and accubond. And berger released a 130 and 140 grain hybrid. And hornady released a 150 grain round nose bullet. I would order up a 25 cal blank with an 8ish twist and run with them. But these companies haven't released anything close to these bullets, and I don't blame them. And, of course, the bc would be better for a 25 cal of the same weight compared to a 6.5. Given the same form factor, of course. I thought that would have been a given. But you couldn't stabilize that bullet in a 10 twist. Not by a long shot. Heavy for caliber bullets has as much or more to do with sectional density than bc.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934064
09/18/15 03:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902
JJH
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[quote=bo323]
Heavy for caliber bullets has as much or more to do with sectional density than bc. Please give it up. You're either quite dense or a troll.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934067
09/18/15 03:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 987
westexhunt
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I shot a 25-06 because my dad shoots a 25-06. I have killed with it and much prefer it over the parent and .270 because I dislike recoil (see hit in scope is important to me). Now I prefer a short action and the 6.5 creed is my all around rifle. Still own and will shoot some 25-06 but I now prefer a different cartridge. For the majority of whitetail hunters the 25-06 is an excellent choice.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934095
09/18/15 03:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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Do you realize not everyone wants to use the heaviest high bc bullet possible? How many bullet choices do you need to be happy? Did you realize if a .257 bullet weighed 140 grains it's bc would beat a 140 6.5? They don't, so don't worry you won't have to change to it. Give it a few years and something else will be winning matches and everyone will switch. I don't consider myself a caliber snob. If nosler released a 25 cal 140 grain partitian and accubond. And berger released a 130 and 140 grain hybrid. And hornady released a 150 grain round nose bullet. I would order up a 25 cal blank with an 8ish twist and run with them. But these companies haven't released anything close to these bullets, and I don't blame them. And, of course, the bc would be better for a 25 cal of the same weight compared to a 6.5. Given the same form factor, of course. I thought that would have been a given. But you couldn't stabilize that bullet in a 10 twist. Not by a long shot. Heavy for caliber bullets has as much or more to do with sectional density than bc. Now you've exposed yourself as a bc groupie. Step away from the high bc for a change. You just might like it.people like the 25.06 for speed. Heavier bullets negate this advantage and add recoil, so there is not a market for them. The wby has the capacity to take advantage of a heavy high bc bullet but there are not any because it's known for speed. Sweet sexy speed. Weight affects bc. Have you noticed lite bullets have a lower bc. Except for a few expensive all copper bullets. Not many rounds are going to shoot flatter to 400 and still be a good deer round. 7-08 will not be as flat. Something to consider if you don't have a good range finder or time to use one.
Last edited by bo323; 09/18/15 03:57 AM.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934198
09/18/15 06:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,564
kmon11
junior
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junior
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[Heavy for caliber bullets has as much or more to do with sectional density than bc. Sectional Density is a ratio of bullet mass and cross sectional area. BC is the ratio if bullet form (Form Factor) to sectional density So for a given caliber the longer the bullet the higher the SD if the form factor is the same the higher the BC will be. Look at say Berger VLD or Hornady A-Maz bullets 30 cal 150, 180 and 220gr bullets, the longer bullets have the higher BC through sectional density than form factor which is almost identical for the different weight bullets.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 25.06
[Re: kmon11]
#5934212
09/18/15 10:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,200
dawaba
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The .25-06 is the queen of the dual-purpose varmint/big game cartridges (with apologies to the .243 Win). One might consider it a bit on the heavy side for sorting out a prairie dog town, but on a windy day it might be a fine choice. And for a big bull elk, I'd prefer a cartridge with a little more oomph like a 7mm or .300 Mag. But for everything else in between, which would include all Texas wild animals, it's right there at the top of the pack. Can you imagine a more suitable round for open country, Panhandle coyote hunting? And I wouldn't hesitate for one second to use it on a caribou either, even though none of my 7 caribou were taken with a .25-06. Those animals are born looking for a place to die and most any cartridge will tump one over graveyard dead.
With so many fine 120 gr hunting bullets among the 51 choices mentioned earlier, I see no need whatsoever for a 140 gr spitzer or a 150 gr round nose when you consider the desires of the OP. I KNOW that the 120 Nosler PT will shoot through a big desert ram cross-ways and a mule deer buck length-ways.
If that's not the very definition of VERSATILE, I don't know what is. The OP should work up an accurate, fast load with a good hunting bullet from 100 to 120 grs and go forth.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934216
09/18/15 11:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528
RiverRider
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"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: 25.06
[Re: dawaba]
#5934217
09/18/15 11:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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The .25-06 is the queen of the dual-purpose varmint/big game cartridges (with apologies to the .243 Win).
If that's not the very definition of VERSATILE, I don't know what is. The OP should work up an accurate, fast load with a good hunting bullet from 100 to 120 grs and go forth. That's what I tell people all the time when they ask for a varmint/deer rifle. Go get a good 243 or 25-06 and the proper ammo for the task at hand. I stress ammo choice though since both are crossovers.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934220
09/18/15 11:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,564
kmon11
junior
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junior
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lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934262
09/18/15 11:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
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The very idea of burning 53-60 grains of powder to shoot a prairie dog is silly.
So, in closing.
Little man syndrome is strong. 25 cal bullet selection stinks. Twist rate stinks. SD stinks. BC stinks.
But yes, you can kill a deer with it.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934297
09/18/15 12:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,630
redchevy
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Doesn't BOBO have some research that folks suffering from little man syndrome use 30 cal magnums and up?
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934377
09/18/15 01:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902
JJH
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The very idea of burning 53-60 grains of powder to shoot a prairie dog is silly.
So, in closing.
Little man syndrome is strong. 25 cal bullet selection stinks. Twist rate stinks. SD stinks. BC stinks.
But yes, you can kill a deer with it. Selecting the proper (optimal) tool for a particular job, be it a hammer, a golf club, a vehicle, etc., or a weapon, often involves sorting through many variables. The critical part is being able to differentiate between relevant and irrelevant variables. You are hung up on the wrong variables and don't seem to grasp the the 25/06 is close to optimal for Texas hunting (this IS a Texas Hunting forum). If this were a long range shooting forum, you would not appear so silly.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934501
09/18/15 02:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,289
J.G.
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Going back to the beginning Hoofandwings said deer hunting 250 yards and in. Maybe a pronghorn hunt one day.
Being that is the case just about any cartridge using a bullet from .243" to .500" will work. Short action, long action, belted magnum, short mag, ect ect. So whatever he chooses will be because he wanted that rifle and that's that.
If he came to me wanting to shoot through the day course and was going to use a .25-06 I would say "sure, we'll push it to 800 no problem" and the point of that is so that 400 yards doesn't seem so daunting later on. I want guys leaving with the ability to kill hogs and coyotes way farther. And a .25-06 may not be the best choice, but the guy that practices with it will be deadly with it because the round is quite capable of farther than most people will shoot. No, it's not a "long range round" but that was never his intended use.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934714
09/18/15 03:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,528
RiverRider
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I'll give you props for that, JG.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5934762
09/18/15 04:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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The very idea of burning 53-60 grains of powder to shoot a prairie dog is silly.
So, in closing.
Little man syndrome is strong. 25 cal bullet selection stinks. Twist rate stinks. SD stinks. BC stinks.
But yes, you can kill a deer with it. How does little man syndrome and a 25.06 go together? Especially from a guy that has to have a larger bullet.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: J.G.]
#5934942
09/18/15 06:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586
ckat
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Going back to the beginning Hoofandwings said deer hunting 250 yards and in. Maybe a pronghorn hunt one day.
Being that is the case just about any cartridge using a bullet from .243" to .500" will work. Short action, long action, belted magnum, short mag, ect ect. So whatever he chooses will be because he wanted that rifle and that's that.
If he came to me wanting to shoot through the day course and was going to use a .25-06 I would say "sure, we'll push it to 800 no problem" and the point of that is so that 400 yards doesn't seem so daunting later on. I want guys leaving with the ability to kill hogs and coyotes way farther. And a .25-06 may not be the best choice, but the guy that practices with it will be deadly with it because the round is quite capable of farther than most people will shoot. No, it's not a "long range round" but that was never his intended use. QUICK... Someone grab a thermometer, I think FJG is coming down with something!!! Maybe it's the love bug... Or maybe he broke out the tie-dye, sandals, hashish and headbands to "give peace a chance." Whatever it is, I like it. A long range guy who can appreciate the attributes of a not-so-long range caliber.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5934965
09/18/15 06:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6.5x47Lapua
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This has never been about long range shooting. How many ways do I have to say that?
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5935227
09/18/15 09:26 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 12,987
hoof n wings
OP
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I have no clue what SD or BD or twist rates or how many bullet choices there are nor how much powder is in a casing........ I'm looking to buy a new rifle and looking for a different caliber. I'll probably never hunt Elk or make 1000yd shots at Hairy Dogs, but maybe some pigs, deers and yotes IF I'm lucky out to 250yds The very idea of burning 53-60 grains of powder to shoot a prairie dog is silly.
So, in closing.
Little man syndrome is strong. 25 cal bullet selection stinks. Twist rate stinks. SD stinks. BC stinks.
But yes, you can kill a deer with it.
I'd ask him if he's pregnant. He missed a s__tload of periods. I'll take "things that look like a uterus" for $200 Alex.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: 6.5x47Lapua]
#5935307
09/18/15 10:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,902
JJH
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This has never been about long range shooting. How many ways do I have to say that? you never have said what it is about... Little man syndrome is strong. what has that got to do with anything on this thread? 25 cal bullet selection stinks. why does that matter?Twist rate stinks. why does that matter?SD stinks. why does that matter?BC stinks. why does that matter?and for that matter, you've never offered any support for these assertions
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Re: 25.06
[Re: ckat]
#5935314
09/18/15 10:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,473
Big Fitz
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I'd like to know why anyone would contend that a cartridge or caliber that is not optimal for shooting steel at 1000 yards should not be considered a viable choice for typical three to four hundred yard hunting.
The long range dogma is really getting stale. A quick point.
I never said anything regarding quarter bores and long range. They don't even belong in the same sentence.
I am simply talking about the lack of versatility.
More to come after the debate is over. I may be misreading RiverRider's intent, but I believe he is speaking of the "if the cartridge is not good for long range, then it is worthless and you are stupid for considering it even though the longest shot you will ever make is 300 yards" mentality that some have adopted. I have to agree. It is, in my opinion, a pretty arrogant stance to take... much less to say/type. Don't know what I am talking about? Take a scroll through past threads about "which caliber do I need," or others concerning the 25 and 27 calibers, specifically. It doesn't take long to get swallowed with egos and big-"Richard" contests. As I stated previously, I used to have a very narrow mind concerning the 25 calibers... It was based solely on writings/post of the internet "experts." Real world results have told me a VERY different tale than those "experts" and have taught me to form my own opinions based on experience rather than other's thoughts. Not saying that I don't enjoy shooting long range... it is a LOT of fun!!! I don't knock the long range guys for taking 700 yard shots at big game. If they have put in the time, developed their own DOPE (not pulled it off of a "should be" website/app,) and can make an ethical, clean kill 99% of the time; more power to them. They are impressive. But please don't let your big head/arrogance/ego allow your mouth and fingertips to cause an unnecessary divide in our shooting/hunting community. It takes all kinds to make this world go around and everyone is entitled to their own opinions/preferences. A little respect for others goes a LONG ways... Very well said, ckat. To the OP, the 25-06 would be a great choice for your purposes, especially Pronghorn. As Chad stated, "speed kills" and I think it is very useful in helping to reduce ranging errors for us mere mortal hunters. It is one of my favorite cartridges. You can't go wrong with either choice. Also, I wonder if Roy Weatherby realizes he was so stupid choosing the .257 as his favorite...poor dumb bastard! I always find it interesting when someone is so negative on a particular cartridge and so positive on others. Makes me wonder if their golf bag only contains 1 single club...
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Re: 25.06
[Re: Big Fitz]
#5935331
09/18/15 10:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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I'd like to know why anyone would contend that a cartridge or caliber that is not optimal for shooting steel at 1000 yards should not be considered a viable choice for typical three to four hundred yard hunting.
The long range dogma is really getting stale. A quick point.
I never said anything regarding quarter bores and long range. They don't even belong in the same sentence.
I am simply talking about the lack of versatility.
More to come after the debate is over. I may be misreading RiverRider's intent, but I believe he is speaking of the "if the cartridge is not good for long range, then it is worthless and you are stupid for considering it even though the longest shot you will ever make is 300 yards" mentality that some have adopted. I have to agree. It is, in my opinion, a pretty arrogant stance to take... much less to say/type. Don't know what I am talking about? Take a scroll through past threads about "which caliber do I need," or others concerning the 25 and 27 calibers, specifically. It doesn't take long to get swallowed with egos and big-"Richard" contests. As I stated previously, I used to have a very narrow mind concerning the 25 calibers... It was based solely on writings/post of the internet "experts." Real world results have told me a VERY different tale than those "experts" and have taught me to form my own opinions based on experience rather than other's thoughts. Not saying that I don't enjoy shooting long range... it is a LOT of fun!!! I don't knock the long range guys for taking 700 yard shots at big game. If they have put in the time, developed their own DOPE (not pulled it off of a "should be" website/app,) and can make an ethical, clean kill 99% of the time; more power to them. They are impressive. But please don't let your big head/arrogance/ego allow your mouth and fingertips to cause an unnecessary divide in our shooting/hunting community. It takes all kinds to make this world go around and everyone is entitled to their own opinions/preferences. A little respect for others goes a LONG ways... Very well said, ckat. To the OP, the 25-06 would be a great choice for your purposes, especially Pronghorn. As Chad stated, "speed kills" and I think it is very useful in helping to reduce ranging errors for us mere mortal hunters. It is one of my favorite cartridges. You can't go wrong with either choice. Also, I wonder if Roy Weatherby realizes he was so stupid choosing the .257 as his favorite...poor dumb bastard! I always find it interesting when someone is so negative on a particular cartridge and so positive on others. Makes me wonder if their golf bag only contains 1 single club... Naw, they can't play golf. The bc and sd of golf balls sucks.
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Re: 25.06
[Re: hoof n wings]
#5935364
09/18/15 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,405
OkieDokie
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[quote=hoof n wings]I have no clue what SD or BD or twist rates or how many bullet choices there are nor how much powder is in a casing........ I'm looking to buy a new rifle and looking for a different caliber. I'll probably never hunt Elk or make 1000yd shots at Hairy Dogs, but maybe some pigs, deers and yotes IF I'm lucky out to 250yds[quote=6.5x47Lapua]The very idea of burning 53-60 grains of powder to shoot a prairie dog is silly. Well then all you need is a 30-30 with iron sites, unless your over 40 then you'll need a scope to see that far. Then we can debate which scope
Maybe Today. raptureready.com
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Re: 25.06
[Re: ckat]
#5935449
09/19/15 12:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,289
J.G.
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Going back to the beginning Hoofandwings said deer hunting 250 yards and in. Maybe a pronghorn hunt one day.
Being that is the case just about any cartridge using a bullet from .243" to .500" will work. Short action, long action, belted magnum, short mag, ect ect. So whatever he chooses will be because he wanted that rifle and that's that.
If he came to me wanting to shoot through the day course and was going to use a .25-06 I would say "sure, we'll push it to 800 no problem" and the point of that is so that 400 yards doesn't seem so daunting later on. I want guys leaving with the ability to kill hogs and coyotes way farther. And a .25-06 may not be the best choice, but the guy that practices with it will be deadly with it because the round is quite capable of farther than most people will shoot. No, it's not a "long range round" but that was never his intended use. QUICK... Someone grab a thermometer, I think FJG is coming down with something!!! Maybe it's the love bug... Or maybe he broke out the tie-dye, sandals, hashish and headbands to "give peace a chance." Whatever it is, I like it. A long range guy who can appreciate the attributes of a not-so-long range caliber. Well he said 250 yards and in. Run what you like in that case. And if you are going to run a duplex reticle Ican show how to use it with 5 hold points for elevation to "X" distance. You'll have a bit of a tough time with wind, but that can be learned also with a duplex. Now if a guy wants an all the time 500 yard plus killing rilfe, and he comes to me with it, I will not point him to a .257" or a .277", and I WILL point him to a Mil scope. But that is not the intended use for the 25-06 in this case.
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