Yes they can. Anytime you'd like to make a friendly wager on that let me know.

Originally Posted By: HillbillyDeluxe

[quote=therancher] No, I never said they belong to the landowner.

Kinda hard to lose something that does not belong to you in the first place, but yet you are attacking the morals of everyone that says they would LEGALLY shoot the deer. In reality it obiously was a risk that the rancher/buisiness man was willing to take. It may sting a little, but he has no one to blame for his loss but himself.

Your post made me curious so I did a Goggle search.... Obviously you can get almost anything insured (Lloyds of London) and here is an insurance company that specializes in deer preserves and farms.

http://nationaldeerinsurance.com/index.html

On further searching I got the impression that most breeders do not insure their animals...just their property (capital assets) and liabilities. Some poster went into great detail about his experiences....so while you can insure an animal (usually breeding stock). I would wager a coffee the preserve did not insure a shooter buck.

Guys, I am confused.

I realize in Texas that once a deer that is in a pen and has an ear tag gets out...it's the property of the state. That's the law as written in Texas. Got that. Forget about the whole high fence and low fence debate....that's another thread. But what is the logic that supports the statement "Kinda hard to lose something that does not belong to you in the first place." The Preserve owner bought a stocker buck...paid for it..got a bill of sale....didn't he own it? He clearly owned it when it was inside the Preserve...because he sold hunts for these deer. I understand that once it escapes there are a bunch of other laws that come into play and in Ohio (where this took place) it's legal to shoot a deer (with an ear tag) that has escaped from a Preserve. But I am missing the logic behind the statement "does not belong to you in the first place" which implies the Preserve owner never owned it. Note that we are not talking about a Texas ranch that the owner high fences and the enclosure has native deer...those deer still belong to the state.

I think you boys are forgetting another factor, revenge, I shoot my neighbors deer, one of my angus might get a .22 in the guts. But, things are settled a little bit different where I'm at.

In regards to the state of Texas... hi fence, low fence, no fence, does'nt matter. The State of Texas owns the deer not the outfitter.
Sec. 1.013. FENCES. This code does not prohibit or restrict the owner or occupant of land from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. The existence of a fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state.

Tony everyone knows that the deer bought and paid for behind the high fence is in fact the person's who bought and paid for the deer. Their semantics ballet is to justify (only in their minds), their petty jealousy and/or resentment.

Everyone knows that once control is lost, ie when the old lady drops the $100 bill, that it becomes legal to pocket it.

Everyone knows that it's morally bankrupt to do that. And most wouldn't when it is an old lady dropping a $100 bill.

BUT, when it is someone who sweated blood to build a hunting operation, it somehow becomes ok to not only kill that asset he/she sweated blood to purchase, but to celebrate his/her loss.

Thats what entitlement mentality does to folks.

Our society now teaches us that everyone deserves a trophy. And NO ONE deserves to have more than someone else.

As a "people" of this state, are you telling me you think deer are yours??

The lie goes both ways. Technically they are the STATE'S deer. Not yours not mine. You can't kill deer behind my high fence. I can't kill deer on your property. We can only kill them when the state says we can.

When I keep the deer in my "pocket" though, for all intents and purposes, they are mine. I can buy them, I can sell them, live or dead.

The technicality of them falling out of my "pocket" making them legal to "pick up".. is a thin veil to your entitlement mentality that allows you to ignore a basic moral tenant and support my loss.

You know it, we all know it. Many of us won't admit it.

Oh.... I'm going to tell ! They are still "Wild". No way that would mean some on this forum are wrong about that 2 square mile pen, cage, HF container, prison. whatever you call it being only tame animals. Therefore they can't be wild so out goes that clause. Does it say anything about corn trained or crop baited.

I realize that.... but a few points..and not looking to debate just understand Texas laws.

1. The incident took place in Ohio..it was a shooting preserve ..the deer was not a native deer that was "caught" when the owner fenced the property... it was purchased. Remember we are not arguing of the legality of shooting an escaped deer....just the chain of ownership. The Preserve owner "owned it" while in the preserve...once it escaped he legally lost his ownership. Got that.

2. Regarding your extract Section 1.013, it talks about putting up a fence and "fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state." I get that...makes perfect sense to me. State owned them before the fence went up they own them afterwards as well. But what about Texas Deer Breeders ...the person who puts up breeding pens that initially have no deer...he then buys some Ohio or PA Deer as breeding stock (before the Texas Borders were closed) and puts them in his pens. Does the state own his deer? I know if they get out they are legal to shoot during the deer season...but while they are in his breeder pens (or maybe he has a preserve) does the state still own those deer that he purchased?

I have my own opinions of high fence operations, but that one statement, IMHO, is the gist of the issue. And I pity the person who doesn't get it.

Yes Tony, the state still "technically" owns the deer. In reality, you can buy deer, sell deer both live and dead. But the state still says they own them. I know, it's a crazy law, and I know some breeders who think they own them. But they don't.

It has nothing to do with the core of this thread though.

Everyone knows that.

Nope corn trained deer get a free pass by the finger pointers. Ignoring one method and pointing fingers at another makes arguments so much easier to win!

Rusty, That is a surprise to me ...and a little scary as well. So do they also own your cattle and livestock or does this just apply to deer and other Texas native species?

Interesting debate. Question to ranchervwhat should the kid have done. How is Stillwater supposed to get the deer back. You.gave the analogy of a old lady and a 100 dollar bill. I can pick up the hundred dollar bill.and return it to the owner. Cant pick up the deer. What about the other deer that escaped?? Everyone supposed to quit hunting while Stillwater tries to dart deer in the wild? My answer to this is simple if Stillwater made no effort to communicate to the public abouy somehow getting their deer back, or even offered a reward for information. The buck is considered lost by the Haf owner.

High fence owner.

Just native species. They should change the law and just declare all wildlife livestock since it is managed as livestock anyway.

One of the curses of growing old is living long enough to watch the negative changes in people. I will admit there are some awesome good changes.

But when I was a kid I'll bet there wouldn't be one person admit that they'd celebrate the loss of another person, like many here have.

And you're right. Opinions of high fences have little to do with that.

FYI . Note the quote is from the hunter who was a 16 year old kid. So bear in mind we are talking about a teenager who was not technically breaking the law... nor is there any obligation to notify the owner that you have seen the deer that apparently was publically stated as escaped.


FROM THE ARTICLE:
On the last Saturday of Ohio’s shotgun season, 17-year-old Alex Wright killed a 30-point monster that had escaped from a nearby high-fence hunting outfitter. Wright had heard rumors about the escape, and after seeing a trail camera image of this buck wandering the property he hunts, the Ulrichsville teen took down the non-typical that would have cost him more than $19,900 to shoot behind Stillwater Trophy Outfitters’ fence.


"I knew it was one of the deer that escaped from the pen, but I figured that wasn’t my fault. I hunted like I would have any other deer that would have been there. I shot him in the heart, he went about 30 yards and dropped." Wright plans to mount the buck, and he says he will leave the tag in its ear that marks it as one of the escaped Stillwater deer."

It is actually relatively easy to get a deer back. The kid had it on his game cam. Chances are REAL good that the deer was hanging around outside trying to get back in. But helicoptering and a netgun are cheap and effective. Especially considering how much the deer is worth.

I posted all that long ago but this thread has gotten so big I wouldn't want to go back and find it.

I think it's more probable (since this deer was a shooter) that the rancher didn't know it had escaped. So he wouldn't have posted anything about a reward. The first he probably knew about it was the pic in the paper.

What most of us (I hope) would have done would have been to contact the rancher and let him decide what to do. It is possible he'd have let the kid hunt it and prevented this bruhaha. But, I for one see the value of this type of debate. A lot of folks have been educated on laws (good or bad).

Ha, they probably would like to own our cattle, and since they regulate them similarly as they do high fenced deer, one could make the case that they "technically" own the cattle too.

The only difference is they don't "claim" to own cattle. And in fact their "claim" is all they have on deer. They do regulate seasons and bag limits on deer. And they have incredibly complicated regulations on breeding deer. But if you aren't a breeder (I'm not), they don't really own deer on my property as much as I do.

The law says they do, but reality is somewhat different.

Finally, we agree.

Tranquilizing deer or livestock is very quick and effective. Last week I used it to worm an individual 1200 lb cow to prevent having to take the herd two miles to a some working pens. Tranquilizer guns are effective inside 50 to 60 yards in most cases.

Wow...40 pages and still going.

See what you started!