FWIW, I have kids so I lease. $1,700 for 1,100 acres less than 2 hours from home with utilities works for me. Minus kids I would have well over $1 million in land. It about priorities and what you want at the given time. I live in the city so living on the land is not an option (it is but risky if job says you must go to office daily), though it would be an affordable way to buy land. Those I know with land are worth well over a few million many times over. Otherwise they inherited it.

RANCHER: "Yeah. Probably should have spent more time hunting than saving and busting my hump. Probably could have hunted on more than the ~ 48,000 acres that have passed thru my hands since '96."


People dealing in real estate have done well....I know several insurance people that have done well too.............

Good post Duckman

Well i just spent my morning coffee break reading this 7 page thread and learned the following:

1. People will always think lease prices are too high...
2. Eastland County had a real hard season deer wise...
3. Guys that bought land in 90's think they are smart...
4. Land prices are high and many barriers to entry exist...
5. According to the income table I'm poor, lol

Carry on...

Just in case you were referring to me with the "think I'm smart" comment.

Nah, not sure how you arrived at that. If anything, I'm the poster child for any average dummy can do it. And that's all I've ever tried to point out.

Oh. And I didn't stop in the 90's, been buying and selling up till 2013.

Good timing then, lol. Land has been in extreme bull market out in the area you have purchased...it is much harder to find reasonable priced, large amounts of land today then in 1996...some deals are out there but the days of $1500 per acre in Bandera county are long since gone...

Also, 100k in 1996 is equivialent to about 175k today...so for the average guy who works and wife works they might make $125k, they have a house note, one car note, couple kids and average bills it's a hard deal scrapping up $100k (20%) for the 500k purchase of 90 some odd acres, nit to mention the monthly payments on that note. I think that's the point several guys have been trying to make on this thread.

I don't want to try and hurt your feelings, so I'm not going to say your intelligent..... but I don't think average dummies didn't had 6 figure incomes in the mid 90's. refer to the table.

You find a 222 yet?

KCH, I couldn't have said it any better...Thinking Rancher is using his exceptional case and projecting as the norm..

Im with you, work hard and save for what you want. I drive a 10 year old beater car live in a modest house don't eat out as often as I can save like crazy and pay off debt... but you have to realize just how small a percentage of the population "you/people like you" represent... IT IS TINY.

I agree its not the norm at all, but not imposible. Pay off your house... if you don't have that new car pmt you can pay off your house a lot faster than you would think. My goal is to pay my 30 year note in under 5 years. If I wouldn't have paid off over 100k in student loans and vehicle debt I would have already don't it... and according to those charts from above My wife and I are far from Upper middle class.

buying a house and a ranch are like comparing lemons to nectarines

you buy any sizable piece of property you are either going to be paying good money for it or buying it in far away locales

acres in Blanco and kendall county goes for the mid $5k's/acre all the way up to the teens

land in medina, frio and Uvalde are from the $3k/acre to $4k/acre unless you buy a field of regrowth mesquite.

Zavala and Dimmit are mid $2500's- $3500/acre depending on the ranch.


ive never sold a ranch to a guy with a 9-5 job. all were businevss owners and executives, lawyers, doctors, etc with good income.


for anyone interested, call and get pre-qualified with cap. farm or texas ag and they will tell you what you can afford based on current savings and income....this is where its at not asking strangers on a forum

whats your interest rate?

if you would take say a 4% rate on your home, invest it and make 7-8% it would make sense not to pay your house off and invest that money.

all debt is not bad the dave ramsey mentality is not a catch -all plan for everyone

Im more interested in the security of my family. Something else to consider is family... if I wasn't married I would have lived my life differently.

life insurance policies cover the home cost in case of accidental death and can pay off debt while letting your liquid cash investments accrue wealth


anyway its kind of off topic but I can understand looking after no.1 (family)

Just another example of peoples priorities. Investments come with risk, and paying interest on a loan is the same no matter what. The only difference in the mortgage vs taking out another loan is a tax break. If chevy already has a really good rate, then paying extra on a 30 year note is a great idea. Even though the rate is a little higher than a shorter term note, it creates a buffer in case of a hardship.
from me chevy

Im not worried at all about dying, she will be just fine, but what if I/she was to loose a job etc. big financial need arise etc.

Any how... this post has gone far enough off topic by now. To the OP yes I do think lease prices are outrageous and it always a mix of dirt bag landowners/outfitters/and hunters alike. I don't think you can lay all the blame on one party individually. If I had to lease hunt I wouldn't hunt by what todays lease market looks like, too much money and too many hunnters/acre for what you get. If I had to go back to lease hunting I would do a package hunt in texas and then move on to elk mule deer pronghorn etc. something where it would be worth it to me for the expense.

There are any number of excuses for "I can't".

Timing is VERY minor. It can help, but I've made this point before: prices today are '90's prices in 2035. It's very simple.

Two things, in land, if you do your research, there is VERY little risk. And paying interest on a loan is most definitely not "the same no matter what".

A LOT of dummies had combined family incomes of ~100,000 in 96. And I have a few leads on the .222 thanks!

risk is being that your investment is not liquid and if you take out a loan you have to consider what your % of profit margin is eaten up by interest.

a lot of guys that bought properties in 07' are just now getting back to breaking even on cash purchases in terms of value.

Land has continually gone up and is a good investment but its not just a "get out and buy some deal" its like anything else, buy right location wise, buy smart price wise and hope for appreciation.

that being said, you can make a lot of money in real estate

I would venture a guess that not all properties lost any value around 2007. A lot of speculators took it on the chin for a few years though and any seller duress was not a good thing. Sales volume slowed WAY down, but prices were pretty stable around here.

they didn't lose value in 07' it was the top of the market. in 08'-09' buyers dried up and what was sold took a 30% hit across the board.

08'-09' was the time to buy.

lots of good ranches that sold during those years right now there is a lack of inventory

A guy advised my daughter to do the same with her medical school loan. He was a complete idiot. I respectfully disagree and think it's a really bad idea.

Agreed, it's impossible to avoid all debt. It's many times necessary to run a business, of course to buy a house, etc. But Ramsey is no dummy. I listen to him on occasion and I have zero debt. Got to zero debt before I knew who Dave Ramsey was. But I refuse to go without a credit card, but I pay them off (hers and mine) every month.

elaborate a bit....what was the end result? what made his advice "idiotic"?

how did she invest it? what vehicle was used?

I'm not pro-debt but I am for using leverage to your advantage.

everyone's financial situation is different what works great for one isn't advisable for another and vice versa

Well then tell me where I can buy land for $1500 per acre in Bandera county then...exactly you can't...that ship has sailed.

It's great that you have enjoyed the ride that rural land has been on since '96, but let's not confuse brains and a bull market sir...

Timing on Rural land and purchase price are the TWO MOST important elements of a land deal, even I know that and I only own a measely 52 acres, lol.