I am in the same boat as you Rodney123. And I do understand why landowners charge what they do, it is just frustrating.

Buy a piece of property large enough to lease out. Make the down payment, make the land payments, build the fences, keep the roads in good shape to drive, keep the water wells/windmills pumping water, pay the taxes, pay the insurance, work on the habitat/grazing, buy the equipment to maintain the ranch, etc. then you might understand it a little better.You can be land poor in a hurry. Landowners do not get raises in income like you would get. Weather and market prices dictate what they can make off their land. That income changes from year to year. Hunting lease is one of the few stable incomes they can expect. There was a time not to long ago when hunting lease income was more than livestock income.

I understand the pricing and supply and demand. But what is really frustrating is the 100-500 acre leases priced per gun instead of per acre. 4 hunters at $2K per sounds great until you realize you have 50 acres per hunter.

That and why do landowners use brokers like Courville Outdoors and others who have bad reputations. I cringe every time I come across a new lease only to learn that it being offered through someone you can't find a single good review on.

Supply and demand.
Too many people moving in Texas daily.

Aint America great! Money talks bs walks. not real good for the guy who was raised to be a nice guy. But the greedy fair pretty good.

I am not bragging just stating facts. I own 360 acres about 3 miles from Bandera. Land in this area is selling for around $5000 per acre. That makes this place worth around $1,800,000. If I leased it to 3 hunters for $2000 each that would be $6000. That is like getting .0035% return on your investment. Who you if you owned property lease it for that? I always like hearing how the landowner is screwing the hunter. See what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot.

Can't blame the ranchers and as the old saying goes you build it and they will come. The guys with the coins has driven the little man out of hunting.

I don't have any issue with a landowner getting what he or she can for lease rights to their property. However, I think there is a legitimate issue with those landowner's who are not committed to delivering legitimate value for the price they are charging.

So those landowners who knowingly lease their properties so that the number of hunters it takes to lease the land is well beyond what the land will support deserve every bit of criticism they are getting because they are ripping off their hunters. It seems to be worse the closer to metropolitan areas you get.

Unless I am mistaken it is the person laying out the money for a lease that is responsible for knowing what he is getting into.

Yep. The market will bear what the market will bear. Value is also subjective and a lot goes into the valuation equation. If I were to lease my land, to make it worth it to me, the price would have to be way above what the "market" valuation would be. Thus, I don't lease it out.

Why not? Advertising is free and the more brokers to get the word out the more potential customers for the landowner. They are not at risk for anything - if someone doesn't pay in full they just simply kick them off and show to the next prospective hunter.

The only reason I heard of Courville is from the THF. Not every hunter is on this site or the many others out there so they run a high risk of missing honest reviews.
-d

I guess it just all comes down to perspective. Not everyone has the same experience and knowledge and I think there is a reasonable expectation that who you are doing business with is committed to delivering value for value received.

I might buy into the buyer beware excuse on a used car or a durable good in which I take physical possession. But not in the case of leasing land which is still in the landowner's complete control and therefore an ongoing relationship while I am leasing the land.

But if you are leasing your land for the max you can get knowing it can't can sustain the use you are selling it for, you are a bad guy. Especially if you don't whether they like it or not because you can just repeat the process next season.

I still hold with my original statement. I don't care wether I am buying a time share, a used car or a new Lexus. I am going to do my homework. If you are going to lease a property know what you are getting into. If there are other hunters talk to them. Look at the property. Look at the property. I cannot say this enough. If it has been abused you should be able to see that. Put the name of the property on here. The people on here know a lot of people. Have a good lease agreement in writing.

This is why I don't criticize any land owner for charging whatever they desire. They are allowing others on their property to take animals, and it is a bigger deal to some than others. If they are asking too much then they won't have any takers, and as long as the owner understands that then it's his/her prerogative.

I can definitely understand the frustration on the part of those looking for a lease, because if I was looking for somewhere to hunt and couldn't find anything in my price range that I felt was "worth it" I would not be unhappy either. I am lucky that my in-laws have a place in west texas that I get to hunt for free. And while high prices may suck for those that are looking for a lease, the other option for those land owners would be to not lease their property out at all, and how would that make things any better?

If all you are looking at is online deer lease ads, you will just continue to be disappointed in regard to the price. The really good deals don't usually make the ads; they are leased by word of mouth. If you can get to know some folks (landowners), you can find some very affordable leases. They aren't easy to find, but they are out there....you just have to get to know people.

Off topic, but another thing that I've noticed that is little worrisome is folks saying, "if I had the money" or "I'll have to wait until I have the money." If someone really don't have a access to enough discretionary funds to get on a lease, then they should probably re-think spending thousands of dollars on a deer lease when they do "get the money." There might be a few other things a little more important like paying off debt and actually saving money!

Yes! What IS wrong with people today??!! Why do hunters think the cost of hunting should remain at 1960's prices??

Incredible.

And again. I have people who hunt my places for nothing more than sweat equity. Not for trophies, but hunting just the same. So go cry on someone else's shoulder. If you wanna hunt you can hunt.

What is wrong with people these days is everyone is looking for a handout.

A landowner leasing his property for anything less than market value is a handout.

And the argument about landowners being responsible for holding a hunter's hand through the process of determining how many guns the land can support, etc? Ridiculous. Do your homework like a big boy. If you're not experienced enough to figure it out on your own, chalk it up to a learning experience.

the market is the market - cars, houses, food, deer leases.

To me a lease is a balance between the hunter and the ranch owner. A person leasing should having realistic expectations on what they are getting and agreeing to treat the ranch owners property as if it were their own. Close gates, pick up trash, be careful with what you harvest. Go by the ranch owners rules - don't abuse the guest privileges, don't stretch the rules ,etc.

By the same token I have run across ranch owners who want your money but don't really want you hunting their property. Also there are some who talk the talk on management but don't walk the walk. Finding a ranch owner who is on the same page as the hunters can also be a challenge.

Blending hunters with a ranch owner who are all on the same page is not the easiest thing to accomplish - we got very lucky to have a great ranch owner and on our place the respect flows both ways.

Yes there is truth in what "the market will bear". Unfortunately, there is the attitude among many ranchers that "hunters are a dime a dozen", if one does not take the lease somebody else will.
The land owner does have the expense of owning the land but after hunting season, he still owns the land opposed to an empty handed hunter.

If there are far more hunters wanting land than there is land available to hunt, the landowners are right that hunters are easily replaceable. Hunters that are good stewards of the land should be treated with respect, but in turn, the hunters must realize that they are the replaceable part of the puzzle and act accordingly. Leases in good areas don't even come on the market. They're snatched up word of mouth before they're ever vacant.

And "empty handed hunter"? What's that all about? Did someone force them to lease land? Not sure why anyone should feel sorry for the "empty handed hunter" in this scenario. Hunting lease fees often times don't even cover the property tax.

+1. I am pretty close to Don K's situation in a different part of the state. The thought of other people having access and hunting rights on my place gives me the hives. By the time they hit a price point that would make it worth it to me they may as well buy it from me.

Scary ain't it NP?

Some of you fellas must have really deep pockets, inherited or earned, or you just inherited your land. I've had work hard trying to get mine paid for, including leasing to other hunters. A few years back, I figured I'd try to find some place I could hunt and I could pay what I was paying for the lease plus a few hundred more. The reason was that when I did the math I found I was paying a really high price for the number of days I was actually hunting! Found something within budget and went for it.

Droughts have lasting effects for years...