My big plate at 400 yards is 2 MOA. Bet it would give you fits.

Do I tell you what car or truck to drive? No. Then don't concern yourself with the size and weight of my mountain rifle. I'll carry a 50 BMG if I feel like it.

Merica.

I wasn't really speaking to you directly. I know your mind is made up that your way is the righteous way.

Just putting another viewpoint out there as we discuss things.

P.S. Why do you have to be so down-your-nose with all your assumptions?

Accusations of condescention, which I feel are unjustified. I have no snobbery to offer. But when you are telling me my way is wrong because it is not your way, it is offensive. So you too are judge, jury, and executioner deciding my rifle is not a mountain rifle? Funny I carried it for a week in the mountains for it to not be a mountain rifle.

Do your way your way and I'll do my way my way. I shoot every week, you don't, fine. But maybe, just maybe I know what the hell I'm talking about. Be about the same as me telling you how to conduct yourself in a court room.

Most kills are 100 yards.

That dosent mean you'll never have to take one over that.

Exactly my point.

Exactly why I shoot those potential distances in practice. Exactly why I learn what to do with rifle and scope to make those ethical kills. And exactly why I am teaching others how to do the same on my range. And I also tell everyone that comes out that I am not trying to make long range riflemen out of everybody. What we are doing is akin to the same reason I practice with a bow at 60 yards. It makes 30 not to tough, becuase the 60 yard bow shot, with the tiny pin will drive home the fundamentals. When you do something wrong the arrow will miss. Same holds true for hitting the steel at 800 yards, it makes 400 seem very comfortable. It is a great deal mental.

Since you brought it up though, I'll come at it another way:

At one point the sheep I was hunting last year (already?) was at 520 yards. We were above him unseen, so my decision was to try and get closer. Easy decision for me for obvious reasons. We did. I killed him an hour or so later at 220.

I will say this though: Weighing it against another variable (the chance I would not get closer) I chose to try and eliminate the bigger variable (long range shot). And I did.

What would you have done? Would all your focus on shooting weighed heavier in your mind than it did for me, pushing you towards taking the 520 yard shot? Would getting closer not have been the priority for you since you are such an accomplished shooter? When you got behind the rifle would you have been thinking about the shot and all its myriad factors? Or just putting the crosshairs behind his shoulder and squeezing the trigger (the virtue of an uncluttered mind )?

I won't speculate what your approach would have been. I can guess, but I don't know.

I do know this. At the critical moment, my focus was on hunting the animal (by getting closer), not shooting at him. And I know this also: that focus paid off.

BTW, assuming I could not hit a target without knowing the first thing about me is out-and-out condescension.

I'll admit I'd have shot him then. Only reason I wouldn't have is if I were enjoying the hunt so much that I didn't want it to end, have to come home and get back to reality that it'll likely never happen again.

That was most certainly NOT a variable.

And you are messing up my hypothetical......

My bad, proceed.. (waiting on you to draw a rocky now).

Hey, let's go Dall huntin....

Currently, my wife would shoot me if I mentioned it.

I never assumed that. Please give me the benefit of the doubt.

520 I would have taken the shot, but that's me. I do not begrudge you, or anyone else for closing the distance. That's part of hunting. Heck, I do it when I can. I've ranged animals, knew I could hit something that far since I have hundreds of times, but I was not in a place where I could get as steady as I like. Then ya gotta tap into your stalking skills, keeping objects between you and what you're after (if possible) try not to move laterally (if possible), hopefully the wind is in your favor, you know the rest.

When I did go elk hunting I ranged a high meadow at 720. And figured elk would frequent that meadow. The wind was almost nothing, but I would have to go down God knows how far, then back up God knows how far from my position to get there. I sat there and absorbed the environment and glassed everything I could between me and that meadow. And came to the conclusion that if in the coming days I see a bull over there, I will take the shot. But I did that after some deep thought. No deep thought as to what I need to do to make the shot, deep thought as to should I. I came to the conclusion that the ammo will get it done, if I put it where it goes. And since I had practiced with it, I felt ok with the shot. Then three days later I was blessed with a bull at 200 yards I had to shoot kneeling on the side of a steep incline, and was glad he was as close as he was.

Prepare for the worst, pray for the best. At least that's my thinking.

An honest answer and I appreciate it.

IMO (even for an accomplished shooter) that would have been making a shooting decision when a hunting decision would have served better. But I get you say 520 is a chip shot for you-so maybe not. I do know my decision was the right one. 100%. Can you say that about yours? Hmmm.....

Your 720 yard meadow shot example proves my point even better. A hunting decision would have been to not purposely put oneself in a position where the only shot was 720 yards. (I know, I know, that was not possible you will say-but is that the hunter talking or the shooter?)

98% of the decisions made that determine success (or lack of same) on a mountain hunt have zero to do with making the shot. Zero. So if one's focus is 98% on the shot, one's focus is oftentimes misplaced.

That's my point for consideration.....

Well my fault for not telling the whole tale of my position. I was situated in the trees on the edge of a meadow to my east. Had a bull waked into thw meadow I was on the edge of, the farthest shat I would have had to make was 290 yards. I had been staring at the same trees for three hours hoping for an ambush. Got tired of sitting and went on a little walk about to see what was behind me. And there is where I saw the high meadow across there and began the hypothetical in my head.

So do I seem more like a hunter in your eyes now?

So how did you get a 3\4 in group with a bullet that would not stabilize in the old barrel? Something doesn't add up to me but you're the expert and I'm new. I would think the expert would use a bullet that is stable in thebarrel.I'd guess that 55 is a flat base too. Why didnt you go to a bullet that was stabilized. That makes the a-max the better lr bullet easy.I'm just being a pain here and responding to exactly what you typed. Read below.

I think what you really mean is that the 55 was no longer stable after going subsonic not that the barrel was unable to stabilize because I don't believe you would shoot it if that was true. The bullet your now using is a good or bullet but is it the flatest to 400-500 yards? Just for example I ran the numbers awhile back in my 300. I could beat the 208 to 400 with a lighter bullet in drop and wind drift but I want to be able to shoot farther where the higher BC helps more. BC does not equal accuracy but it can help.

I never said I could read the wind better. I threw that comment in there because it seems you believe people should always dial something. My max range is 400 due to lack of practice. Between the new kid and work, I haven't had the time but we have gone to 24-48(firefighter) so maybe I'll have more time for practice.

In target shooting and 400 plus yard hunting I would say flat shooting is irrelevant. In what I would consider normal hunting situations probably 300 yards and in flat shooting makes things a lot easier.

I like turtles

I agree with you to an extent. What if in long range hunting your range finder picks up a bush in front of or behind the animal? The flatter cartridge could mean the difference in a wounded or dead animal.

I like turtles too! What other things do you like?

Here's a puppy, do you like this puppy?

You are making assumptions that lead you down the wrong road.

The 55 grain was shot out of a 1:14 twist. And it was a SP BT. That's Spire Point Boattail. So I was running the best BC bullet I could. Why buy a flat base when a boattail was available? That would be stupid. A 1:14 twist will not stabilize a 75 gr. bullet. You should know that before ever asking me why I didn't run that bullet in the previous barrel that was 1:14. I ordered a barrel based on what bullet I wanted to run, and I wanted to run a 75 gr A-max, therefore I asked for a 1:8 twist and had them chamber it in 22-250.

What I really meant, and already explained, is the 55 gr shot vertically very well, but was pushed by the wind more. "BC does not equal accuracy but it can help" That is subjective. Subjective to what you went through to make the rifle shoot the best it can (insert load development), and subjective to distance. Anyone's 22-250 may punch near single holes at 100 yards, multiply that distance by five or ten and see what it does, if it even hits paper or steel that far out it will look like 00 buck shot hit it. A slow, boring 308 Win will outshoot that 22-250 at the 500 and 1k mark. And why is that? Nothing more than BC.

"You believe people should always dial something" You are basing this on what information? Have you come through my class? Have you shot with me in matches? No and no. Therefore, you are fabricating information. I rarely dial wind. If I have time to dial elevation, I will. If I do not have time I will hold both. And FYI, I practice holding elevation and wind monthly. It is the most difficult way to shoot distance, but it is a skill I need to be good at.

So you're a Fireman too? Awesome! I've been having friendly debates with Firemen for 17 years.

I said you should of tried swapping loads because I knew it would stabilize in the old barrel same as the 55 would probably come apart in the new barrel.

The thing about load development is what I've been getting at. If your gun won't shoot the high bc , it does you no good.
The dialing comment. I think I got you mixed up with 6.5. For the most part we are splitting hairs. Wouldn't mind the class just dont have the time and no competitions near me.

So I failed to tell the whole story and that leads you to giving out more advice without all the facts.

Swapping what loads?

I ran the 55's from start to finish on that barrel. The reason it was finished is because the throat was eroded to the point that when I only had .224" of bullet sitting in the neck (the minimum) my bullets were jumping .100" to lands. I ran 500 more loads that season. I had to get a new barrel, and that was my opportunity to improve the external ballistics of the cartridge. And by the way, there is no published data I could find for a 22-250 pushing a 75 gr bullet. How in the world did I make it shoot? I asked for help from the THF and got one guy that had been down the same road. I took his data and used it. I did not argue with him, only thanked him.

So was I supposed to read your mind to get the whole story? Kinda funny you burned out the barrel with a bullet it wouldn't stabilize. This forum is here to help each other. By your last sentence, I shouldn't question you and thank you for being on the same forum as me? Good thing you're not condescending to the new guy that's in over his head and doesn't worship BC.

The real question here is, is it flatter to 500 then a 257 wby ( 3600fps BC of .4).

Its not. With 100 yd zero 5.57 vs 6.93 moa. 257 wins. Lower BC wins.