The doe management side of the of equation is probably the problem on the current lease. Guys go out looking to make the Top 10 sheet for largest buck taken on the lease. Has to score about 125 or so to make #10 now. A far cry from the 105-110 score that held the record 10 years ago.So guys hunt their trophy til after Thanksgiving Weekend. This is when the frustration hits and some of the guys start shooting 3yr old 8's that would likely be something special in a couple years. Kind of frustrating but... they pay the same amount I pay. Just wish I was lease manager to establish a strict set of rules.

Few does are taken off our place each year, but our numbers do not seem lopsided. I'm trying to stress the point to guys on the lease that we need to start taking more does, don't just leave them for the youth hunters to take. I feel that reducing the doe population will help significantly, genes and health of the herd.

Any input on how to convey to guys how important it is on taking DOES and "cull" bucks? I have taken bucks with little to no brow tines in the past, trying to relay the message that this is not the genetics we want our deer to pass on. Only for the guys to say " Hey that's only a 3 yr old 8 as well".... yes, point being he is inferior to our other 3yr old bucks that we want to mature.

We're in a similar position in Llano Co. If it does not have brow tines at 2.5 it gets culled, regardless of the rest of the rack. It is a long uphill battle but we have been at it for 4 years now and are seeing results. Last year I don't think I had a single deer without brows, and this year just one so far.

Now, as to the other problem of good 3.5yos getting shot, that's another story. We have 2 neighbors managing just like us, and two who shoot anything and everything. Sometimes it hurts to think about how much protein you fed that deer, and how many times you passed, just to see the neighbor kill him young. Ahh well.

Do any of your deer express missing brow tines when mature?

If I had a 3 YO that was 18-19 wide I would let him walk just to see what he does personally. Even if he never has brows he could be one heck of a trophy if he puts on lots of mass as he ages.

Don't grill me for saying this but...

In the Kerr spike study one of the things they learned was (and I don't remember the percentages) that ~80% of the older bucks with one or no browtines were spikes at 1.5 years old...

Just saying

No grilling from me, I'm on the spike is an inferior deer wagon.

No grilling from me, I'm on the spike is an inferior deer wagon.

We talked with TPWD game biologist and followed his suggestions.

After 5 years of this management we had 4 deer in the 140 class that were 4.5 year old deer. The last year I was on the lease we had a 6.5 year old that went 155.

All of this on a low fenced pasture with two neighbors that were doing much the same as we were.

I hunted on a Llano county lease for 23 years. When I started, the 'old group' all stated that 'don't shoot the spikes, they all become 10 pointers'. Then the Kerr report came out and they started to change a LITTLE bit. Fast forward to the last 6 years I was on the lease. We had a complete new group that wanted better quality deer. We talked with TPWD game biologist and followed his suggestions. We took out the older does and started taking out some of the older, cull-type bucks.
When we started, the average 8 point field dressed around 80 pounds and a good doe was 60-65 pounds. The buck/doe ratio was 1 to 7 with 1 deer for every 4.5 acres. With NO additional feeding, after lowering the total numbers of deer on the property, we started seeing some improvement. After 5 years of this management we had 4 deer in the 140 class that were 4.5 year old deer. The last year I was on the lease we had a 6.5 year old that went 155. Our buck to doe ratio was down to 1 to 2. Everyone saw a lot of bucks and everyone had a chance at something 3.5 - 5.5 years old that was in the 135-155 class. More important (in my mind) the average weight of a buck went up to 120 lbs field dressed. All of this on a low fenced pasture with two neighbors that were doing much the same as we were.

I hunted on a Llano county lease for 23 years. When I started, the 'old group' all stated that 'don't shoot the spikes, they all become 10 pointers'. Then the Kerr report came out and they started to change a LITTLE bit. Fast forward to the last 6 years I was on the lease. We had a complete new group that wanted better quality deer. We talked with TPWD game biologist and followed his suggestions. We took out the older does and started taking out some of the older, cull-type bucks.
When we started, the average 8 point field dressed around 80 pounds and a good doe was 60-65 pounds. The buck/doe ratio was 1 to 7 with 1 deer for every 4.5 acres. With NO additional feeding, after lowering the total numbers of deer on the property, we started seeing some improvement. After 5 years of this management we had 4 deer in the 140 class that were 4.5 year old deer. The last year I was on the lease we had a 6.5 year old that went 155. Our buck to doe ratio was down to 1 to 2. Everyone saw a lot of bucks and everyone had a chance at something 3.5 - 5.5 years old that was in the 135-155 class. More important (in my mind) the average weight of a buck went up to 120 lbs field dressed. All of this on a low fenced pasture with two neighbors that were doing much the same as we were.

I knew I wasn't the only one!!!