|
Forums46
Topics547,605
Posts9,850,024
Members87,844
| |
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
 Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5374785
10/23/14 02:00 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 470
Hilonesome
Bird Dog
|
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 470 |
One of the Prettiest, "Hossiest" Rams I ever seen was a Stumberg TCU cross! those Rams you posted TonyinVa are pretty cool!
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: TonyinVA]
#5374815
10/23/14 02:17 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 478
TB338
Bird Dog
|
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 478 |
Just to stir the pot a bit, here are some pics of a Transcaspian Urial ram x Stumberg ewes...I believe these sheep are 3 year olds.   There horn configuration look like TCU x red sheep cross, TCU color and horn mass with red sheep horns that kinda pull in. Texas Kick a$$ afghan Urial.
DEATHBY416
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5374830
10/23/14 02:23 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
I want to see them when they are older..... preferably on my wall.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5374834
10/23/14 02:24 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
Actually...they don't look half bad. Only half bad..... I guess from you that's a compliment.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5376042
10/23/14 08:02 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
Kobus
OP
Bird Dog
|
|
OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267 |
I just don't care for hybrids or cross stuff. For something like Stumberg Sheep I can understand...one Argali male with no females(at least they picked mouflon, a wild sheep to breed it with, instead of crossing it with farmyard pets). But when you start getting number percentage soup sheep like Thomson Temples mongrels, it just raises my brow in disgust.
I'm a firm believer in keeping a species for what it truly is, not watering it down. Every time I see a 40+" Pure Transcaspian Urial or another wild sheep male with a bunch of Corsican ewes or the like domestics, I just can't help but to shake my head. It's just to me they are too wild and majestic of animals to be part of Dr. Frankensteins laboratory experiments. The results might look "cool" to some people, but that sheep is likely watered down wildness wise due to crossing with a domestic stock and likely of living it's whole life in an acre pen where it receives constant human contact.
Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5376098
10/23/14 08:39 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
Kobus,
Hunting Exotics in Texas is a business ...if the business doesn't make money it goes under. I do not think Exotic Sheep hunting in Texas would survive if all you had were "pure bred sheep." It would be way too expensive. That's why there are Texas Dalls, Black Hawaiians, Corsicans and Painted Sheep (all hybrids). You said you were writing a paper for college on Exotics......what would happen to the financials of these Texas hunting ranches if there were only allowed to hunt pure bred animals?
So I think what motivates the ranchers to cross bred these sheep are to get an animal that meets a market demand. It's business ..giving customers what they want at a price they can afford (and are willing to pay).
So if you have a high priced Transcaspian Urial ram you would first mate it with all your Transcaspian Urial ewes...you can sell those rams for 15K...but to a limited market. But if you have some Mouflon ewes...maybe you create a hybrid (maybe a Red sheep or even a TCU x European Moflon).....or whatever. That ram is there...might as well use him.
The Patio will only sell Stumberg ewes....so is it all that horrible to cross them with a Transcaspian Urial or should we make mutton stew out of those ewes?
Also, I know you dislike Thompson Temple, but remember that he got his bighorn x European Mouflonb cross sheep from Colorado when there was an accidental cross breeding of the two species. Maybe the state of Colorado should have shot them all.
As long as the Outfitter is honest about what he is selling on a hunt, I have no issue with hybrids. I also don't think the hybrids are going to contaminate/wipe out the pure bred herds.
You might want to lighten up a bit on your views about things..... just a suggestion.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Hilonesome]
#5376102
10/23/14 08:41 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
One of the Prettiest, "Hossiest" Rams I ever seen was a Stumberg TCU cross! those Rams you posted TonyinVa are pretty cool! And you raise some of the best Mouflons around...so they must look pretty good. I want to see them at 4 or 5 years old
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: TonyinVA]
#5376105
10/23/14 08:44 PM
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,319
Aaron-Ibex
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,319 |
Kobus,
Hunting Exotics in Texas is a business ...if the business doesn't make money it goes under. I do not think Exotic Sheep hunting in Texas would survive if all you had were "pure bred sheep." It would be way too expensive. That's why there are Texas Dalls, Black Hawaiians, Corsicans and Painted Sheep (all hybrids). You said you were writing a paper for college on Exotics......what would happen to the financials of these Texas hunting ranches if there were only allowed to hunt pure bred animals?
So I think what motivates the ranchers to cross bred these sheep are to get an animal that meets a market demand. It's business ..giving customers what they want at a price they can afford (and are willing to pay).
So if you have a high priced Transcaspian Urial ram you would first mate it with all your Transcaspian Urial ewes...you can sell those rams for 15K...but to a limited market. But if you have some Mouflon ewes...maybe you create a hybrid (maybe a Red sheep or even a TCU x European Moflon).....or whatever. That ram is there...might as well use him.
The Patio will only sell Stumberg ewes....so is it all that horrible to cross them with a Transcaspian Urial or should we make mutton stew out of those ewes?
Also, I know you dislike Thompson Temple, but remember that he got his bighorn x European Mouflonb cross sheep from Colorado when there was an accidental cross breeding of the two species. Maybe the state of Colorado should have shot them all.
As long as the Outfitter is honest about what he is selling on a hunt, I have no issue with hybrids. I also don't think the hybrids are going to contaminate/wipe out the pure bred herds.
You might want to lighten up a bit on your views about things..... just a suggestion. ^^^^100% agree
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: TonyinVA]
#5377753
10/24/14 06:18 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 470
Hilonesome
Bird Dog
|
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 470 |
[quote=Hilonesome]One of the Prettiest, "Hossiest" Rams I ever seen was a Stumberg TCU cross! those Rams you posted TonyinVa are pretty cool! And you raise some of the best Mouflons around...so they must look pretty good. I want to see them at 4 or 5 years old Thank You Sir! I appreciate the Kind Words!
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5377865
10/24/14 07:38 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 546
DustyWyoming
Tracker
|
|
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 546 |
When going out to the White Elk ranch you are driving through the typical wide open prairie of South Western Nebraska and then you drop off into this area where the ranch is at and from the bottom it almost seems as though you are in the mountains next to some cliffs, so it makes for some fun hunting, and the animals are very good trophy quality, you will also see some animals there that you do not normally see in Texas, like the reindeer, also if you hunt in the winter the animals have the long thick coats and mains, if you can go to white elk ranch it is well worth the trip.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5377866
10/24/14 07:40 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 546
DustyWyoming
Tracker
|
|
Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 546 |
If I remember right it is about a section of ground. But I could be remembering wrong.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: TonyinVA]
#5459975
12/05/14 09:00 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267
Kobus
OP
Bird Dog
|
|
OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 267 |
Kobus,
Hunting Exotics in Texas is a business ...if the business doesn't make money it goes under. I do not think Exotic Sheep hunting in Texas would survive if all you had were "pure bred sheep." It would be way too expensive. That's why there are Texas Dalls, Black Hawaiians, Corsicans and Painted Sheep (all hybrids). You said you were writing a paper for college on Exotics......what would happen to the financials of these Texas hunting ranches if there were only allowed to hunt pure bred animals?
So I think what motivates the ranchers to cross bred these sheep are to get an animal that meets a market demand. It's business ..giving customers what they want at a price they can afford (and are willing to pay).
So if you have a high priced Transcaspian Urial ram you would first mate it with all your Transcaspian Urial ewes...you can sell those rams for 15K...but to a limited market. But if you have some Mouflon ewes...maybe you create a hybrid (maybe a Red sheep or even a TCU x European Moflon).....or whatever. That ram is there...might as well use him.
The Patio will only sell Stumberg ewes....so is it all that horrible to cross them with a Transcaspian Urial or should we make mutton stew out of those ewes?
Also, I know you dislike Thompson Temple, but remember that he got his bighorn x European Mouflonb cross sheep from Colorado when there was an accidental cross breeding of the two species. Maybe the state of Colorado should have shot them all.
As long as the Outfitter is honest about what he is selling on a hunt, I have no issue with hybrids. I also don't think the hybrids are going to contaminate/wipe out the pure bred herds.
You might want to lighten up a bit on your views about things..... just a suggestion. Actually that isn't a bad idea. Jk! But the problem I have is that crosses whenever they get Corsican blood in them or since they spend most of their life in a breeding pen, they seem to be pretty tame...
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5460562
12/06/14 03:07 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
LuckyHunter
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255 |
Kobus,
Hunting Exotics in Texas is a business ...if the business doesn't make money it goes under. I do not think Exotic Sheep hunting in Texas would survive if all you had were "pure bred sheep." It would be way too expensive. That's why there are Texas Dalls, Black Hawaiians, Corsicans and Painted Sheep (all hybrids). You said you were writing a paper for college on Exotics......what would happen to the financials of these Texas hunting ranches if there were only allowed to hunt pure bred animals?
So I think what motivates the ranchers to cross bred these sheep are to get an animal that meets a market demand. It's business ..giving customers what they want at a price they can afford (and are willing to pay).
So if you have a high priced Transcaspian Urial ram you would first mate it with all your Transcaspian Urial ewes...you can sell those rams for 15K...but to a limited market. But if you have some Mouflon ewes...maybe you create a hybrid (maybe a Red sheep or even a TCU x European Moflon).....or whatever. That ram is there...might as well use him.
The Patio will only sell Stumberg ewes....so is it all that horrible to cross them with a Transcaspian Urial or should we make mutton stew out of those ewes?
Also, I know you dislike Thompson Temple, but remember that he got his bighorn x European Mouflonb cross sheep from Colorado when there was an accidental cross breeding of the two species. Maybe the state of Colorado should have shot them all.
As long as the Outfitter is honest about what he is selling on a hunt, I have no issue with hybrids. I also don't think the hybrids are going to contaminate/wipe out the pure bred herds.
You might want to lighten up a bit on your views about things..... just a suggestion. Actually that isn't a bad idea. Jk! But the problem I have is that crosses whenever they get Corsican blood in them or since they spend most of their life in a breeding pen, they seem to be pretty tame... Sometimes "pretty tame" is just the nature of the animal and/or it's environment. Most Texas hunters compare all game to a mature whitetail. I have a friend who says "why would I go to Alaska and shoot bullwinkle". In my opinion to much time is spent on" judging what a hunter should be" while forgetting ALL game animals are not created equal. Ever hunt a muskox.
Last edited by SheepHunter; 12/06/14 03:19 AM.
Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5460573
12/06/14 03:18 AM
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,319
Aaron-Ibex
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,319 |
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Aaron-Ibex]
#5460598
12/06/14 03:39 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: Kobus]
#5460766
12/06/14 06:13 AM
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,400
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,400 |
I'm with SheepHunter Jack O'Conner, even said that a mature whitetai,l was one of the most difficult trophies in the world to hunt. I get enjoying the wonderful habitats that some animals live in but a lot of those animals are not difficult to hunt. Take those animals out of their awe inspiring habitats and the hunt isn't so great.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: DustyWyoming]
#5460850
12/06/14 01:16 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,803
colt45-90
Texas colt45
|
|
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
If I remember right it is about a section of ground. But I could be remembering wrong. 640 acres doesn't seem like much for this type operation
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: colt45-90]
#5461304
12/06/14 07:00 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985 |
If I remember right it is about a section of ground. But I could be remembering wrong. 640 acres doesn't seem like much for this type operation Colt, Do you even know what type of operation this is? How many animals...terrain type, amount of cover? A square mile is a pretty good size piece of property....whether it is fenced or not. Why is it you always seem to feel the need to post a less than positive comment?
Last edited by TonyinVA; 12/06/14 07:52 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: White Elk Ranch???
[Re: TonyinVA]
#5461404
12/06/14 08:37 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,639
Reloder28
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,639 |
In any event, my point was the pictures I posted were from Gary Ploch (who is a super nice guy) and he said they were Sumbergs ...and I believe Gary ...and the patio also has European Mouflons and I would suspect Gary sent me the correct pictures as we discussed them on the phone.
Agreed. I have had extensive discussion with Gary too, on this subject. Plan to book a hunt next year. If I want a Stumberg sheep, the Patio Ranch is the ONLY place I'm going to get one.
You don't know what you don't know.........until you know.
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|
