well heres a good example.. and no offense. but if you buy a 3 dollar knife, you cannot tell me in any kind of honesty that it will hold an edge or even acquire an edge like a 25 dollar knife. and so forth and so on. my hunting knives are all case and hold an edge extremely well, they are around 80.00 a piece nothing too extravagant. my pocketknife was around 125.00 (mooremaker) and the only reason i bought a new one is because i lost the old one that i had handed down to me from my dad, which by the way still held an edge great. and as long as i can keep this one off the tailgate of my truck then i can hand a sharp knife down to my son.when i say shaving sharp thats a term that a lot of people seem to misconstrue. by that i mean, i want to be able to trim hair off my arm, not shave my beard with it. i dont think im crocodile dundee, and its not a macho thing. but if its not sharp then its just a piece of metal! the higher quality knives have more carbon in them which allows them to hold an edge longer, and as far as your bow being cheaper and killing an animal just as dead, well thats great. but will that bow last you the time that a hoyt would? i think not. i dont want to start a pissing match but you do get what you pay for and someone that doesnt believe that, enjoys paying for things more than once, jmho....

You believe that a hoyt will last you longer than my bow will last me?? Well, here goes the proverbial pi$$ing match.. LOL
Nah, I do understand what ya mean.. Which is why I carry a Kershaw pocket knife, and one of Stic's knives for skinning and cleaning..
I think the better moniker for you is that "you pay for what you get"... Not the other way around.
I do understand about the hair shaving thing.. And I also understand some folks' desire to have their knives that sharp. The laws of reality tell you that if you make the edge of the knife THAT fine, it WILL be effected by use prior to a knife which is not made as sharp..
I commend you for having good stuff.... Also for being able to refrain from leaving your current favorite on the tailgate of the truck..We have all been there... LOL

well what i am getting at is that even though both bows may last the same length of time , maybe that wasnt the best analogy... i guarantee that teh quality is not there with a cheaper bow. a stick and string would do the job and did for thousands of years. but thats not the point. like ive said before i use a 25 degree edge on all my knives and that seems to work great for me. i only sharpen my hunting knives when needed which isnt all that often, usually tehy just need touching up on the leather or fine stone... and as far as my pocket knife goes, and your kershaw. ive been around those guys that go with a super fine edge and it either breaks or loses its edge really really quick, i think it all goes back to what angle is on the knife. im sure stic would chime in here and help us out. im no knifemaker and dont claim to be but i do know what works well for me. and ill be honest with ya, i buy quality things that are 9 times out of ten more expensive than the other, for 2 reasons one is of course confidence in your equipment and 2 is i cant afford to buy junk or something that will last half the time just to turn around and buy another later on.. make sense? and i guess the match is a draw,haha

Fair enough..
I just bought the Lansky system, after just using a single stone to sharpen my stuff for years.. Do you have good results with yours?? I am still trying to get the hang of it, playing with my son's cheap knives.. Still kind of scared to touch one of my good knives with it.

i feel the same way about the lansky.. i have the diamond set with the arizona stone for super fine. its ok. ive never been very good at doing it with one stone, so thats why i use this one, plus it gives you the best angle, and 25 seems to be spot on. but the clamp could use some work, ive only been able to really get it good and tight on one of my knives, and it wasnt the good knives. thats my only complaint about it, it seems like its the best for the money, but could definitely use some improvements. i actually started putting electrical tape on the inside of the clamp so that it wouldnt rub the metal on the knife and scar it. because believe me it will. that pisses you off. and on some knives you have to start out on the coarse stone to get the angle you want otherwise youre doing no good. thats my experience. if there is a better sharpening system out there, without breaking the bank i would love to hear it

I shave some hair on my arm or leg, if i get it right you just barely have to touch the hair and it shaves. Lots of guys at the lease this year wanted me to sharpen their knives for them, i ended up with my left arm and both legs pretty much shaved clean.

yeah you can always tel when ive been sharpening knives... no hair on my left arm

Hey Rick/Kim, I use that diamond hone you gave me pretty often. I wound up with a set of four different grits from my Brothers estate. However, I keep them in the metromess.

6 to 8 strokes on a Forschner steel will produce a tackey feel, and you are good to go. Also keeps the wife from complaining about the prickly arms @ night.

For those of you saying a shaving sharp edge will dull more quickly, not true. You are most likely raising a metal burr on the edge when sharpening. (any machinist or "die sharpener" knows exactly what I am talking about). This burr will be very fine and make an edge appear to be sharp, but during use will break off leaving a dull edge behind.
When I sharpen a knife I will often use a loupe (or magnifing glass) to check for a burr. If one is present I will raise the sharpenining angle to knock it off and then continue sharpening at the desired angle with the lightest of strokes to prevent another burr from forming again.

Being neither a machinist or die maker, obviously I am mistaken.. Please allow me to take back what I said, despite the years of MY experience I have personally had with MY knives.. I know what the he** a "bur" or rolled edge feels like. Despite whatever my ex wife tells you all, I am not a complete idiot. Please let me send all my knives to yuso you can sharpen them correctly. Since I have obviously been doing it wrong all these years.

Dayum. I am becoming more and more cynical in my old age.

calm down coop... i would tell ya to slit your wrist but i know your knves arent sharp... haha. seriously though everyone does it different. i think it does boil down to the quality of the blade first of all, and then it really depends on the sharpening job, i work with a guy that can use my sharpener and still screw it up, my dad can outsharpen me, then there are those knives that just cant ever get that edge you want. but if it works for you then use it..

Post deleted by Pitman

You know what, I am sorry about that snide comment I made. Just didn't expect that reaction to to advice that I thought might help others. Again I apologize

Ok, just figured out how to delete that post... Happy sharpening

Right about the time I cut myself.

No sweat Pitman.. It was late and I was all jacked up on French Vanilla Cappucino.. I apologize for going off the deep end on ya..
Have a good day !~!!

I always heard that if a knife looses it's edge quick, then you're using too much angle to sharpen it. I hate sharpening knives. I am NOT a patient person. When I sharpen my knives I use an Arkansas Stone and do it in about 4 different sessions.

Arm shave all I've ever tried.

In answer to the original question, I use the hair test. But there's more to it than that.

"Just from my experience and others mileage may vary, but knives that can shave have always dulled faster than knives that would not shave."

Cheap steel. Without getting too far into metallurgy, I'll explain:

Two of the primary characteristics that allow a knife to get sharp and then STAY sharp are carbon content and grain size.

Carbon content is the primary "hardener". Anywhere between .5 and 1% carbon is generally good blade steel. Much less, it won't get hard, much more and it starts getting brittle. Hardened and tempered correctly, it's just damn'd tough.

Steels have carbides in them. It's kinda like the sand or gravel in concrete. The most common carbide in blade steels is manganese - which would be like gravel. However, with the addition of something like vanadium (much smaller carbide), you get a much finer grain structure in your steel. This smaller grain is capable of polishing up much better at a microscopic level thereby creating fewer "snags" in the steel to catch while cutting. It WILL increase the life of your blade's edge if polished up well by using the finest stone in your sharpening arsenal. A leather strop does a good job too.

I forgot who said it, but it's true:
It's easier to keep a knife sharp than it is to sharpen a knife.

Unless you do something to damage the edge, you can keep a knife sharp with a piece of leather by stroping it frequently during use. Beats the hell out of having to sharpen a dull knife when you still have dead animals hanging in front of you...

When you can shave a sleeping mouse,
and not wake him up; now thats sharp enough!!!

Another thing that matters is the type of edge or hone on the blade. I can say through my experience that a hollow-ground edge is insanely sharp. When we were in Iraq Spyderco gave us a deal on knives and the model I bought was hollow-ground and it cut my finger ever so slightly just by touching it with next to no pressure at all. You can check out their website to learn all about different kinds of edges.