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 Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Zack]
#526004
12/29/08 05:27 AM
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HupDog Daddy
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Like I said Ugly dog Usually last to be picked because no one wants an ugly dog. I think they work harder and smarter because they don't have to worry about looking good. I associate in Springer circles and the smartest, hardest running, birdiest, bulldozer of a dog I have ever seen doesn't even look like a Springer he is so ugly. But if you ask anyone which dog they would take hunting most people that have seen this dog would prefer him on a hunt. He usually does not place well in field trials because he is so tough on the eyes. Just my observation 
" Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch"
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: HupDog Daddy]
#526005
12/29/08 03:22 PM
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bigjohn
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So from what I am reading the only real advantage is looks.......okay so lets take it a different direction:
What characteristics do you look for in a pup?
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
You need professional help, not help from some truck driver on this forum.
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Zack]
#526006
12/29/08 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 55
Five Star
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With all due respect Angie...the "49 day rule" has nothing to do with vaccinations and is based on solid research by Dr. Paul Scott (Rhodes Scholar) who directed a project to help guide dogs for the blind. I won't bore you with all the findings, however, his study did reveal 5 critical stages in a pup's life: (1) 0-21 days; (2) 21-28 days; (3) 28-49 days; (4) 49-84 days; and (5) 84-112 days. Stage (4) being the optimum time to establish dog-human relationships.
David
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Angie B]
#526007
12/29/08 04:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 306
steel shot
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Quote:
Interesting... My FC and the only one in the litter,,, was a runt, almost died and was last pick....
My QAA,MH and Pheasant Scramble champion was given to me by my Tri-tronics dealer at the time... Left over,,, runt.
My first lab was QAA, MH, Master National qualifier, gun dog bar none. Last, leftover dog. Got him at 4 months. Great pedigree. Also lived until 16 years of age. Went to work everyday with us in the field. The standard all my other dogs need to live up to...
Pick,,, Pick what? Other then the pedigree and breeder....
IMHO...
Angie
+1 on Angie's input.
The dog that I am training right now was the runt of the litter, and is impressing the heck out of me.
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: bigjohn]
#526008
12/29/08 05:17 PM
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HupDog Daddy
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Just an observation here!
Usually -- the last two dogs from a litter are left because they are runty or ugly or both. For some reason I can't quite pin it down -- something developmentally happens to these dogs -- for the most part they seem to have better instincts, drive and intelligence. Now understand this is not gospel but I have seen it more than a couple of times.
My guess is it is some type of pack survival instinct that kicks in. But what do I know I'm no expert??? just an observation
" Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch"
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: bigjohn]
#526009
12/29/08 07:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 115
Straight Up, No Chaser
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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I hunt with English Setters the physical attribute that I "prefer" is a mostly white dog. I can see them better when hunting. I apologize to the experts if my terminology is not correct on this one but the "personality" trait I look for in a puppy is boldness.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: bigjohn]
#526010
12/29/08 07:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,130
GUTIT
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Quote:
So from what I am reading the only real advantage is looks.......okay so lets take it a different direction:
What characteristics do you look for in a pup?
Read my earlier post, I mentioned what I do briefly. Watch the pups, playing, at feeding time, sleeping, walking around in the open, their reaction to human contact (voice, touch, etc.). If you want a pup to be a one person dog, look for the one that is more independent of his/her litter mates, mother and owners. If you want a family pet, look for those clinging traits. If the breeder will let you, mark one you like somehow (shave a mark in the hair), then come back later ( a few weeks) and watch the same pup to see if it still has the same traits. You may lose the pup to someone else in the meantime if you do not put a deposit down though. This is not true all the time, but it works for me and most of my litters that I have had. Good Luck
Stronghold Construction Group
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: GUTIT]
#526011
12/29/08 11:37 PM
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bigjohn
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Thanks again to all for the input  
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
You need professional help, not help from some truck driver on this forum.
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: bigjohn]
#526012
12/30/08 01:25 AM
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HupDog Daddy
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here is an ugly dog for reference 
" Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch"
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Five Star]
#526013
12/30/08 01:30 AM
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Angie B
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With all due respect the "49" day rule started before the mid 70's and Doctor Scotts book... As a matter of fact since Scott's book, the consensus is that 6 weeks or 8 weeks would be better emotionally and developementally for a puppy to go to it's new home... The original "49" day rule evolved around vaccinating protoccol at the time.... Which was a long time ago... When looking at the big picture it really is neither here nor there... If your puppy turns out to be a dud because it went home a week or 2 later, earlier or 2 months later... Then it really wasn't that good to begin with....  Angie
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Angie B]
#526014
01/02/09 08:45 PM
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Posts: 11,833
wal1809
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I have a differnet understanding of the 49 days rule. It had nothing to do with vaccinating the dogs but proven results from seeing eye dog trainers. They had a much higher success ratio in training than that of the field dog trainers. When questioned it was discovered teh 49 days is when the dogs develope their status as a leader or a follower in a pack animal society. Where are you getting the other information, I would like to read it?
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: wal1809]
#526015
01/03/09 12:07 AM
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Angie B
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Quote:
I have a differnet understanding of the 49 days rule. It had nothing to do with vaccinating the dogs but proven results from seeing eye dog trainers. They had a much higher success ratio in training than that of the field dog trainers. When questioned it was discovered teh 49 days is when the dogs develope their status as a leader or a follower in a pack animal society. Where are you getting the other information, I would like to read it?
If I recall, it's been a while, but it was at an Ian Dunbar seminar. He's a animal behaviorist that was a professor at Berkely specializing in canine aggression... Also the 49 day rule was poo,poo'd at a "super puppy" seminar I attended.... The general feeling was earlier or later developementally as opposed to 7 weeks. 6 weeks or 8 weeks is the best time.
The same thing was going around about weaning foals at the time. Traditionally it was 6-8 months. When I got out of horses they thought 4 months was better, then it went to 4 months is terrible 2 or 6 months are better....
I guess you can find a study somewhere that will claim "something" is best...
I'd love to see the study where seeing eye trainers had a higher succes rate with their dogs then then retriever trainers???
Angie
Last edited by Angie B; 01/03/09 12:13 PM.
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Zack]
#526016
01/05/09 03:53 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,632
cajundave
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As many alluded to above:
I picked a breeder after talking to a few and getting some recommendations. I checked out the scores from the parents and then told the breeder what and where I would mostly hunt and what I planned to hunt. I also told him wether or not the dog would be in the house and around kids.
He picked the dog for me and I couldn't be happier.
"Guns aren't toys!They're for family protection,hunting dangerous or delicious animals,and keeping the King of England out of your face!" H.Simpson 
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: Five Star]
#526017
01/09/09 10:26 AM
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Posts: 2,658
nogeese
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Quote:
I would read Richard Wolter's book, "Water Dog". He believes that "timing" is more important than "pick"...that you should remove a pup from the litter at exactly 49 days old because pecking order (litter dominance) begins on the 50th day and some non-desirable personalities can develop as a result.
excellent book I will be in mongomery picking up a pup in a couple of months
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Re: Importance of Pick of the litter?
[Re: HupDog Daddy]
#526018
01/09/09 10:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,658
nogeese
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Quote:
here is an ugly dog for reference
kinda looks like frank zappa
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