I agree with BMD iam all about management but I think sometimes you can take all the fun out of hunting . We always try to take mature bucks trophies and culls . But iam not gonna ruin someone's party who just killed the biggest buck of his life just because I think the deer was to young. Life's to short and I eat sleep and crap deer hunting . But it is a hobby , its supposed to be fun . Not life and death.

I guess here's my question (with a little sarcasm mixed in) it seems like most of you guys have pretty strict restrictions on what you can shoot. For those of you who have been on the same place for at least 5 years... Have you noticed a substantial increase in the size of your bucks? If not, it seems like a waste of time. If so, then y'all are doing something right.

I have no problem with a lease having anter restrictions, even though I don't concern myself with them. I just have a feeling there are a whole heck of a lot of living room biologists trying to grow bigger deer, who are spending a lot of time and money and who will never see a payoff because there's one small thing they aren't doing right.

I think I'm doing alright with some places that were shot out when I got ahold of them. One place I decided not to even hunt for 5yrs and this yr will be year 5. It'll be lightly hunted for the next 4-5yrs then turn into a place for 2 kids to hunt.

This ought to stir the pot. Over the many years of my hunting I have taken many hunters out. Those being both Exotic and Whitetail. The ones I have the most trouble with are the so called "Trophy Hunters". Most but not all talk a good talk. Brag about what the biggest animal they have taken. I am not one for guessing B&C or committing myself to measurements on Exotics. When I take someone and they ask how large or measurements I tell them if you like the animal then try to take it. I put hunters in stands and they are the ones that decide. None have ever been dissatisfied with what they took because it was their choice. And none of the WT have been above average for the area and none of the Exotics were ever put in any books. Hunting is supposed to be a thing you do because you enjoy the hunt. If it makes you happy to hunt the rest of you life looking for a 200" WT and dying and never firing a shoot the more power to you. And if it makes you happy shooting the first buck you see each season that is also great. Me I only hunt spike or at the most 2 year old Axis bucks. That makes me happy and for me that is what counts. So don't be too hard on anyone either because he only wants a so called mature deer or someone that just wants a deer. It is hunting and that is all that counts.

I would love to be involved in a management program that would produce some really good bucks, but in all likelihood, I will be on a lease that has only a few bucks that reach maturity. The few that do are probably doing so more by luck than by how I manage the deer. What I really want to avoid doing is going in the other direction. I know if you kill the younger bucks, your chances of having any good bucks gets slimmer and slimmer real fast. SO consequently, I want to be on a lease that has rules and I expect people to follow them as long as they are informed before getting on the lease. I know I can expect the 3.5 year old buck to become more of a buck the next year than the doe that I take out if I am just hunting for meat and that fact is pretty hard to argue with. I think culling before you reach a certain stage in managing whitetails is more counter productive than productive.

I understand the sarcasm - finding a lease/ranch that has the right set up is difficult at best. However it can be done. We got our lease 8 years ago. Go back and look at the post of the deer on our ranch. There is nothing easy or cheap about getting this done - but it can be done. Believe me, watching a 175 inch stud buck walk by and not taking him is very difficult. However, by doing so, the next year the deer is a 201 inch Boone and Crockett record book deer. It takes plenty of patience, money, hard work, cooperation, etc. But to me, at the end of the day, all worth it for the chance to take a true, LF, trophy buck. Not for everybody but worth it for some. It certainly is not the only way nor necessarily the only way - but it can be done

I'm not into hunting for trophies but I do shoot mature animals and the lease I'm on now has like minded hunters on it!!! I don't care for leases with TOO many rules and penalties for the wrong bucks and all that because they tend,(for me anyway), to take the fun out of hunting!!!

yes... age is the easiest way to grow bigger deer hands down.... I use to see nothing but dinks around my area for the longest time just because the deer were not getting past 2

The vast majority of "management" required on most places is simply to shoot more does. Period. A doe taken off has a 50/50 shot at being replaced by a buck.

That said, if you shoot that young buck, he is dead. Maybe the neighbors will get him-maybe they won't. So, if a mature deer is what you are looking for, by definition you won't get one by shooting an immature deer.

I killed a lot of deer when I was younger....99% of my kills have been culls and does. we didn't hunt a "anything goes" ranch, not killing whatever I wanted to didn't affect my desire to hunt and didn't turn me off of it one bit. I didn't kill a decent deer till I was 24 or 25 I think.

if a youngster/guest wants to shoot something, there is always does to be killed. killing a small buck just to say you got a buck is pointless.

if its a persons first buck I can see it but I know people that do it year after year, then complain that "the ranch I hunt just doesn't have good deer, so I shoot these"

a deer will never reach trophy size unless he has age on him. Best way to do that is to keep your finger off the trigger. You will never kill a 160" deer if you keep shooting them when they are 130" and 3 years old.

You can feed till your hearts desire, burn 100's of gallons of diesel planting food plots, read every book James Kroll ever wrote, but its not going to amount to a hill of beans unless you control your harvest based on age guidelines.

We like mature animals that are legal. I got a friend of mine on the lease 2 years ago and he seems to think that any legal deer should be fine for him to take. He already knew that we are looking for mature animals but seems to think that he can do whatever he wants as long as its legal. He also seems to think that its ok for him to bring his dad down in deer season, when I have told him before that we don't bring guests during deer season unless its your kid. Anyway, he knew of all these rules before he got on the lease, so I have already warned him that if he screws up 1 more time that he is gone. I just don't want it to ruin our friendship over something stupid that he does, because the rest of the people on the lease are expecting me to fix the problem if something happens again.

There's always the option that nothing will replace it.

Tough situation. This is why we have a written set of rules that clearly and fairly set out our guidelines and each hunter signs them before each season. Friend or not, that guy needs to go because just one hunter ignoring the ranch rules can potentially cost all of the hunters the entire lease

Not being a smart a** or anything but I have a question. I read earlier on this thread that a person was on a lease. They took around 20 does each year, 2 inferior bucks and 2 trophies. Since Does probably have half buck and half doe fawns how does this all work out in the end?

This all fine and dandy if you are on a lease with these rules. I understand! I also understand that some people, including myself hunt in an area that deer will never live to become mature. I hunt in an AR county and people shoot LEGAL deer that never make it to a mature age. Are they wrong for doing this? Am I to judge them? The deer are legal. They are paying for the lease and to hunt, so are they wrong? I fully understand the concept of trying to manage but if I did this I would never shoot anything. I pay out the wazoo to hunt and would like to occasionally have something to put into he freezer. Am I wrong? I would love to hunt in an area that everyone hunts mature deer but I don't, so I think there is nothing wrong with putting meat in the freezer. As I said I do pay to hunt.

True, but I am assuming a place at or near CC.

I think the majority of places (with majority being small acreage tracts) would be better served to just lay off the trigger period. That CC shoots on up there with part-time deer.

The biggest heartbreak of all, no matter the situation, is the guy that drags up the button buck.

We killed 32 does one year off of our 425 acre place in the Hill Country. We could have done the same thing every year, but the 2-3 years following the doe killing year, we had different and better bucks show up on camera and in person. The killing year allowed different does and bucks to come into the pasture and provided what I saw as some refreshment in regard to the genetics. The taking of these does allowed for more feed for the remaining deer for a short period of time and it genetically mixed up what was probably a stagnant gene pool. Killing does in that part of the country is like digging a hole in sand , but it can and does help if you can stand gutting that many in a season.

My buddy owns a place in Colorado county much like you just described. 50 acres south of Weimar surrounded by similar sized tracts

Since they have stopped shooting bucks less than 4 years old they have consistently killed 4 year old and older deer every year

Go figure

On my actual place iv not shot the first gun on it... its been nothing but bow and anyone that has hunted there has done the same... it really does show big results when everyone around you is rifle hunting

I agree that deer qualifications depend on what your goal is and what makes you happy and personally deer take alot of work (skinning quartering butchering and grinding it). It also depends on how you were raised to hunt. My grandparents through my dad grew up shooing lots of deer. Deer was used year round. Because of this dependence you shot whatever you could. Time was limited they would all hunt to get as many deer as they could spend Christmas break grinding up all the deer everyone working together then split it up at the end. If you depend on it for food size shouldn't matter. This (personal opinion) is the basis of hunting and what man did a hundred years ago. I feel it has been lost to the modern era of hunting deer only for the racks and deer processors.

I agree 100%. I hunt in Lavaca County. I have said numerous times that the State just needs to stop hunting altogether for two years to help the deer population. I know this sounds crazy. It'll never happen but dreaming doesn't cost anything.

I'd be willing to bet that somewhere in the county there's an overpopulation of deer.