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Feb 7th, 2025
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 Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: SkyPup]
#5021956
03/15/14 03:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,303
Bearclaw
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Many people are unaware of FLIR's DDE software alogrithim that enhances their thermal sight images. Here is an explanation of why DDE is important at times: Only under extreme unfavorable environmental conditions do I even use FLIR's proprietary DDE (Digital Detail Enhancement) to bring out the background contrast above a linear thermal gradient. DDE is basically a spatial filter designed to enhance the high spatial frequencies (edges etc.). The DDE filter attenuates high amplitude signals, making more of the total dynamic range available to display faint objects and details. The amount of attenuation is automatically determined by analyzing scene statistics. Here is a link to FLIR's excellent Digital Detail Enhancement proprietary alogrithium: http://www.flir.com/uploadedfiles/Eu...TN_0003_EN.pdfDigital Detail Enhancement (DDE) helps the human eye to see targets more easily using thermal imaging. Human eyesight can only distinguish about 128 levels of grey in an image (7 bit signal). A Long Wave Infra Red microbolometer core is assimilating in excess of 15,000 levels of grey (14 bit signal) and has to transform this into a 7 bit signal which the human eye can distinguish - otherwise a target will go undetected. FLIR Systems developed Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) to help make targets more readily visible. DDE magnifies all details equally - so a small hot spot against a cold background will be just as clear to see and not be lost amid the dominant background temperatures. This overcomes a major problem and is extremely important in acute circumstances. It is an exclusive FLIR Systems product and is incorporated into all its thermal imaging products using Tau2 and Quark microbolometer cores. Just an FYI, the DDE sounds neat but the images produced by other comparable units look better than the images from the RS units. Namely the ThOR. Sharper, more contrast, and clarity. It's not an opinion, if you put the 2 side by side(which I have) it's obvious. If the DDE is in the core then its in other units that use the core and it comes down to lens and display. If the DDE is not in the core, then IMO you are better without DDE. I have no brand bias and have experienced the strengths, weaknesses and exclusive features of a wide variety of thermal devices and I can tell you that image quality through the eyepiece of an RS unit is average. It seems like anyone who has seen the units knows that, so I wanted to be a little more honest and straight forward to the members about what they should expect out of the unit. The above post makes it sounds like there is some kind of amazing and exclusive image enhancement going on with FLIR RS units and speaking from experience, there's just not.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5022034
03/15/14 04:30 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972
HuntTXhogs
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972 |
Wow - I put the computer to sleep for a couple of days and out come the eggs, tomatoes, and cavalry......
I don't wear striped shirts nor play a referee in any movies but let me say this.
Skypup does give an awful lot of time and effort into sharing videos/pictures/experiences with the masses and I full well believe he does it from his own good will for his own purposes.
I do the same as I travel the forum circuit and often times I find myself extending information beyond the scope of the original posters inquiry for a variety of reasons, call it intuition of what questions you think they might ask next.
Double Naught brings out an awful lot of good points regarding auto nUC and snakes on the plains - I for one liked how the Armasight Zeus gave a 10 second countdown to its auto re-cal so that the shooter can time a shot appropriately. That isn't what this thread is "about" but it is germane to the topic of auto-NUC'ing which probably exceeded the OPs knowledge but oh there I go with that intuition thing....
DFWroadkill gives a lot of good information often on here and is a new poster over at ARFCOM so I suspect we will be having lots of opinion-conversations for some time to come!
Bearclaw- Congrats on becoming an official FLIR channel distributor!!!
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5023055
03/16/14 01:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
I am of the opinion that the FLIR DDE is the absolute Bees Knees for thermal weapon scopes, it works just fantastic to bring out the detail that you do not see without it when the hunting conditions are far from ideal as in fog, rain, and drizzle. Normally I run many of my FLIR instruments in pure linear thermal when the weather is good and the conditions are not complicated, under ideal conditions this is easy to do and I can manually adjust the thermal registers to tease out hidden difficult to spot objects to bypass, such as deer bedded down in the grass, or use it to tease out difficult objects such as a sounder group wallowing in deep cattails around a pond. That is fine when the weather and climate is conducive to thermal operation, often times, however, that is NOT the case. However, when the going gets real tough, such as when we shot 9 hogs in a sounder in the middle of a hot tropical storm last summer with sheeting sideways rain, 45 mph constant wind, and God awful thermal conditions, that is when I use DDE to help attenuate the crud and make it though to the target when absolutely nothing else will work, and I mean nothing. This You-Tube video explains how DDE works, and in my opinion, why you need it to work for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfY3AOKF5gAOne of a half dozen swamp hogs killed in the middle of a tropical storm, when NO NV was worth a damn and FLIR DDE thermal saved the day...I mean NIGHT!  
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: dfwroadkill]
#5023140
03/16/14 02:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Yes, as I thought... The ATN lenses are made by Janos Tech (42 years experience). Again, they are using an OLED vs the FLIR LCD. Those two items are more than enough to explain the more "crisp" image folks are noticing on the ATN.
To the OP, I stand on the fact that you will not be satisfied with the $3,500 scope for hunting. A 240 core, 1X, 13mm lens thermal weapon sight is a miserable tool. Save a little more money and get something you will enjoy much more. You might check with Bearclaw here on the forum. He was offering the 320, 2X, 35mm for just $500 more. And you also get a 60Hz system vs a 30 Hz system as well. He is a full channel distributor also. FLIR is a great company that is known to offer excellent customer service. There are other scopes in their lineup that will work very well for your hunting purposes.
Those are facts you can rely on and they answer your original inquiry... FLIR makes all their own Germanium thermal lens in-house and sells many of them to ATN for their higher end units, when FLIR no longer has any in stock ATN gets them from Janus instead. Janus makes good lenses (as do other manufacturers) but the new FLIR 60mm lens has a higher F# than any of the Janus lenses do in the ATNs. You could have a Janus or FLIR lens in your ATN, but only ATN knows for sure, not you. As a matter of fact, my FLIR M-18 3X extender germanium lens costs $5,700, the same copy of that lens from Janus costs $1,700, is there a difference in quality for the price? You bet there is..... All the Predator and Reaper Drones use FLIR DDE and FLIR lenses not ATN or Janus, and they are used in the worst weather imaginable. FLIR does not get any of their equipment, cores, lenses, circuit boards, software, etc. from ATN, it produces all it own equipment and sells some of it to outside vendors like ATN. When it comes to thermal equipment, beside the quality of construction and the warranty on the unit, the core and the lens are the two most important factors and the most expensive.
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5023458
03/16/14 02:48 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,424
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,424 |
One of a half dozen swamp hogs killed in the middle of a tropical storm, when NO NV was worth a damn and FLIR DDE thermal saved the day...I mean NIGHT! No doubt thermal has advantages over NV, but that FLIR DDE saved your hunt may be true, but then again comparably priced ATN would have done the job just as well, maybe better. In short, thermal is what saved the hunt and you just happened to be using a FLIR brand thermal. Of course again, the FLIR that you are talking about saving your hunt IS NOT the extreme low end RS scope the OP inquired about, not in 2012 it wasn't, LOL. No doubt you were using a scope that way many times the cost of his inquiry. Too bad the video you posted from the higher end RS looks poor in comparison to the DDE video from FLIR.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#5023960
03/16/14 09:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
One of a half dozen swamp hogs killed in the middle of a tropical storm, when NO NV was worth a damn and FLIR DDE thermal saved the day...I mean NIGHT! No doubt thermal has advantages over NV, but that FLIR DDE saved your hunt may be true, but then again comparably priced ATN would have done the job just as well, maybe better. In short, thermal is what saved the hunt and you just happened to be using a FLIR brand thermal. Of course again, the FLIR that you are talking about saving your hunt IS NOT the extreme low end RS scope the OP inquired about, not in 2012 it wasn't, LOL. No doubt you were using a scope that way many times the cost of his inquiry. Too bad the video you posted from the higher end RS looks poor in comparison to the DDE video from FLIR. I have to apologize once again for not the having high quality professionally produced ideal videos to satisfy you. What kind of FLIR thermal weapon scopes do you think I was using on my property back in 2012, how about back in 2010? What kind were you using back then? Any videos or photos you have to share to support your opinion over the years? My thermal videos are all produced on my property in actual hunts under all kinds of less than ideal perfect weather conditions and I do not "PhotoShop" any of the results, what you see is what you get on the net. It is so much better in real life, but if you don't know much about thermal besides what you see on net videos, I certainly understand. In the meantime, I absolutely love it when hogs drop dead like this! As Ramblin'Wreck said, "Silence of the Hams!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpH6W8RjyYo
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5024846
03/17/14 02:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Buddy just returned two 3X ATN Thor-336s for two new FLIR RS32-35mm because just about every time he fired his 5.56mm AR-15 rifle the Thor would flicker and reboot, sent back to ATN twice and still has the same problem, FLIR RS does NOT have that problem with recoil from either 5.56mm or 7.62X51mm.
Plus he did not like the small FOV either.
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5030414
03/20/14 05:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: SkyPup]
#5036561
03/24/14 08:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
The soon to be released RS Production model video cable is custom designed to work in concert with the RS Series thermal scopes for video recording and keep wiring from getting caught up or obstructing the scope:  [
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: SkyPup]
#5036576
03/24/14 09:01 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972
HuntTXhogs
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972 |
The soon to be released RS Production model video cable is custom designed to work in concert with the RS Series thermal scopes for video recording and keep wiring from getting caught up or obstructing the scope: [ ...and correct me if I am wrong but those of you thinking you can make one of these by going to Frys Electronics and splicing a RCA with a mini-USB are wrong because. Wait for it.... Wait for it.......... Yup FLIR integrated a power switch (smart sensing) into the cable so that the battery unit won't get worn down. Just wait till next year with the scope becomes self-aware 
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: HuntTXhogs]
#5036607
03/24/14 09:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
The soon to be released RS Production model video cable is custom designed to work in concert with the RS Series thermal scopes for video recording and keep wiring from getting caught up or obstructing the scope: [ ...and correct me if I am wrong but those of you thinking you can make one of these by going to Frys Electronics and splicing a RCA with a mini-USB are wrong because. Wait for it.... Wait for it.......... Yup FLIR integrated a power switch (smart sensing) into the cable so that the battery unit won't get worn down. Just wait till next year with the scope becomes self-aware I've got a mini-USB cable for a couple of my Go-Pro Hero 3's that I use for racing that match the FLIR RS video output but they do not turn on the internal video out switch, so any aftermarket video cable are not going to work since they do not contain the electronic switch to turn on the video output from the thermal Tau2 camera. As you mentioned, this is a smart move to prevent the battery from running down and to prevent screw ups when you are trying to record a hunt through the RS scopes since there is no "On-Off" switch to mess with.  Busted a couple more with the FLIR T-70 this weekend, had a great time tromping around in the swamps with the waders on!  
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: HuntTXhogs]
#5036726
03/24/14 10:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,500
Texas buckeye
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,500 |
HuntTxHogs/ Ben,
What do you mean the scope becomes self aware?
Joke? Or something much cooler?
Just curious...
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5036823
03/25/14 12:12 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972
HuntTXhogs
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,972 |
LOL -
Joking I hope, reference to many Sci-Fi movies of things getting so danged technical that they take over the world.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5037964
03/25/14 06:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Here is a video of the hog kills through the FLIR scope. The swamp was 1,500 acres of open wet prairie and I was in water knee deep and could spot the hogs out 800-1,000 yards and then would stalk up to within 175 yards of them for the kill. The reason there is allot of ground white is I did not have a shooting stick and was sitting in the water when shooting and the water is cold white....couple of moccasins and gators were close by watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwPiWVGD1c
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: SkyPup]
#5038039
03/25/14 06:36 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972
HuntTXhogs
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972 |
Here is a video of the hog kills through the FLIR scope. The swamp was 1,500 acres of open wet prairie and I was in water knee deep and could spot the hogs out 800-1,000 yards and then would stalk up to within 175 yards of them for the kill. The reason there is allot of ground white is I did not have a shooting stick and was sitting in the water when shooting and the water is cold white....couple of moccasins and gators were close by watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwPiWVGD1c Nice vid - I like the integrated gun shot sound effects, took a page from my book on that one did ya  You make it all look easy Man!
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5038115
03/25/14 07:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,791
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,791 |
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5042196
03/27/14 11:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Have had a number of PMs whether or not you can see turkeys during the day with thermal....   Will have a short video later...
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5042725
03/28/14 12:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Thermal video of a Gobbler and two hens for all those that have asked me if you can see turkeys during the day using thermal....wish the Gobbler would have puffed up for me, maybe next time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Le6lJRSytg&feature=youtu.be
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5042748
03/28/14 12:37 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972
HuntTXhogs
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,972 |
I'd like to request video of a Mountain Lion at 35 yards.
Please and Thanks!
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: HuntTXhogs]
#5042798
03/28/14 01:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
I'd like to request video of a Mountain Lion at 35 yards.
Please and Thanks! We don't have Florida Panthers this far north, but we do have black bears.  And lots and lots of wild hogs! 
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5042826
03/28/14 01:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
"We often see dealers nowadays comparing thermal vids vs. this or that which is REALLY a bad thing to do"
Amen to that.
An NTSC recording really really doesn't do justice to the beauty of what is displayed on a thermal scopes screen. In almost all cases the recorder is capturing a lower quality image of what is really displayed on the eyepiece LCD and then it is even further crapified during compression etc.
Amen to that, on top of it all, the dealers take pre-palanned professional setup videos in a parking lot somewhere under ideal weather conditions and then do not even mention temp, humidity, objective lens size, microbolometer pixel size, etc. and wax eloquently how much more "clarity, resolution, and range their unit has compared to a competitiors" it is a virtual PR picnic and no relation to real life applications except that it is a sham...
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: SkyPup]
#5042929
03/28/14 02:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309
SkyPup
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 309 |
Here is a hog a black bear killed with one bite to the neck right before we captured him in the trap we set for him:  
I spend my money on dogs, hunting, racing, women, and whiskey - the rest I waste.
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5042994
03/28/14 02:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,791
ccoker
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,791 |
cool
I am trying to get one sent out for a pig hunt I am doing in two weeks with the guys that own Templar Tactical Suppressors and the SilencerShop
I LOVED the little PS32
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Re: New flir thermal scope
[Re: Wburke2010]
#5043235
03/28/14 05:04 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,424
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,424 |
"We often see dealers nowadays comparing thermal vids vs. this or that which is REALLY a bad thing to do"
Amen to that.
Right, best to present information in isolation with no comparison. Don't want to give the potential buyer the opportunity to entertain choices. If you did that, they might not make the decision that you want them to make. 
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