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Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: BowHuntinTX] #5052690 04/03/14 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: BowHuntinTX
Do things right and you don't have to worry about getting searched or answering questions.


WRONG. You should get out more. Read more news. Something. You are severely misguided.

Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: Sneaky] #5052717 04/03/14 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: BowHuntinTX
Do things right and you don't have to worry about getting searched or answering questions.


WRONG. You should get out more. Read more news. Something. You are severely misguided.


If a GW wanted to search my camp house for coolers, what's in the freezer, I would probably decline to give my consent-even though I can assure you I have nothing to hide. The GW may press the issue and search anyway, I don't know. (In any event, they would find nothing.)
I have declined to give consent to search my vehicle during traffic stops on two occasions-the officers were not happy either time, but they did not press the issue.
Sometimes you just have to exercise your rights just to make sure you still have them. smile


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: cazador1022] #5052724 04/03/14 06:29 PM
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I agree, Nog.

Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: cazador1022] #5052975 04/03/14 09:21 PM
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Lots of farmers up here take advantage of that crap. Killing deer of the combine, letting corn stand till the end of deer season and claiming crop damage for tags, and ins cash.When i was growing up i could walk out the front door and hunt as far as i could walk in any direction. Farmers didn't care as long as someone was killing them. Nowadays there's posted signs in every direction because the last 2 farmer generations hunt.

Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #5053696 04/04/14 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Inspection authority has very strict parameters. There is a very good case to be made that the Texas statutes relating to GWs go well beyond those parameters. The Court has made clear that merely labeling otherwise prohibited conduct "inspection authority" will not fly.

The two biggest vulnerabilities of the statute IMO are 1)the blanket provision allowing GW to enter any private property that game animals may inhabit (which includes the vast majority of all property in Texas) and 2)the provision allowing searches of any receptacle that may hold game. Depending on the circumstances, both are subject to challenge.

For example, if a GW was sent onto private property as a "pretext" or if a cooler was in a camp house.

No question, however, that the statute controls unless and until the Courts say it doesn't.


Elaborate on the "pretext" if you would.


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Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: scrub buck] #5054109 04/04/14 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: scrub buck
Lots of farmers up here take advantage of that crap. Killing deer of the combine, letting corn stand till the end of deer season and claiming crop damage for tags, and ins cash.When i was growing up i could walk out the front door and hunt as far as i could walk in any direction. Farmers didn't care as long as someone was killing them. Nowadays there's posted signs in every direction because the last 2 farmer generations hunt.


No such thing as deer crop insurance. If your talking about the yeild program, your better off harvesting it then not. Insurance only pays out a 1/8 of normal historical yeilds


Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, b/c they know not victory nor defeat"- #26 TR
Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: cazador1022] #5054156 04/04/14 03:05 PM
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Wow

Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: StateGameWardenTX] #5054221 04/04/14 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: StateGameWardenTX
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Inspection authority has very strict parameters. There is a very good case to be made that the Texas statutes relating to GWs go well beyond those parameters. The Court has made clear that merely labeling otherwise prohibited conduct "inspection authority" will not fly.

The two biggest vulnerabilities of the statute IMO are 1)the blanket provision allowing GW to enter any private property that game animals may inhabit (which includes the vast majority of all property in Texas) and 2)the provision allowing searches of any receptacle that may hold game. Depending on the circumstances, both are subject to challenge.

For example, if a GW was sent onto private property as a "pretext" or if a cooler was in a camp house.

No question, however, that the statute controls unless and until the Courts say it doesn't.


Elaborate on the "pretext" if you would.


Another LE agency sending a GW in to inspect private property for other suspected violations.

In re-reading Chapter 12 it appears "pretext" is not possible given that information not directly related to the purposes of the investigation/research appears to be not disclosable without landowner consent. So I stand corrected.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #5054250 04/04/14 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: StateGameWardenTX
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Inspection authority has very strict parameters. There is a very good case to be made that the Texas statutes relating to GWs go well beyond those parameters. The Court has made clear that merely labeling otherwise prohibited conduct "inspection authority" will not fly.

The two biggest vulnerabilities of the statute IMO are 1)the blanket provision allowing GW to enter any private property that game animals may inhabit (which includes the vast majority of all property in Texas) and 2)the provision allowing searches of any receptacle that may hold game. Depending on the circumstances, both are subject to challenge.

For example, if a GW was sent onto private property as a "pretext" or if a cooler was in a camp house.

No question, however, that the statute controls unless and until the Courts say it doesn't.


Elaborate on the "pretext" if you would.


Another LE agency sending a GW in to inspect private property for other suspected violations.

In re-reading Chapter 12 it appears "pretext" is not possible given that information not directly related to the purposes of the investigation/research appears to be not disclosable without landowner consent. So I stand corrected.


That's what I thought you were getting at. Like a game warden inspecting a property and finding something suspicious while the DEA is cued up at the front gate?

Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: cazador1022] #5054824 04/04/14 10:16 PM
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Well in relation to drugs or the DEA in general if they want to get a look at something up close and personal they would just get a helicopter and hover right above whatever it is they really want to look at for themselves, so they don't need anyone else's help.

If at that point they see something illicit then they would get a search warrant to investigate further.

If I'm going through normal duties and I'm legally at where I am supposed to be and come across something illegal, I'm not expected to put blinders on and pretend like it didn't happen.

There is no Game Warden walking into a house just because and looking around then bringing the Narc's in. If you weren't there legally to begin with then it would be what the Supreme Court calls "Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree".


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Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: BOBO the Clown] #5060879 04/09/14 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: scrub buck
Lots of farmers up here take advantage of that crap. Killing deer of the combine, letting corn stand till the end of deer season and claiming crop damage for tags, and ins cash.When i was growing up i could walk out the front door and hunt as far as i could walk in any direction. Farmers didn't care as long as someone was killing them. Nowadays there's posted signs in every direction because the last 2 farmer generations hunt.


No such thing as deer crop insurance. If your talking about the yeild program, your better off harvesting it then not. Insurance only pays out a 1/8 of normal historical yeilds
we get paid a tad more than 1/8


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #5061377 04/09/14 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
...2)the provision allowing searches of any receptacle that may hold game.....


You bring up an area of the about search rule that really chaps me. When I was in the pecan business in Jacksboro, the local GW, J.C. Romines, stopped me several times as I was leaving the orchard at sundown with the trailer loaded with burlap sacks of pecans headed to the cleaner. He would randomly cut the string on a dozen or so sacks and ram his hand down in as far as he could. Finding nothing, he would drive off, leaving me to resew the sacks and try to get to the house without getting a ticket for no trailer lights, By the time he had finished his fun, it would be dark. At the time, I didn’t even own a deer rifle plus if I had been dumb enough to hide deer parts in the pecan sacks, I would have ruined more value then the deer meat was worth. Petty harassment hiding behind a GW badge. The entire thing was obviously illegal but in a small rural town, you can’t afford to make the local LEO community mad at you.


Re: Game Warden vs Farmer.....farmer wins in court [Re: GriffGruff78] #5069242 04/14/14 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: GriffGruff78
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: StateGameWardenTX
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Inspection authority has very strict parameters. There is a very good case to be made that the Texas statutes relating to GWs go well beyond those parameters. The Court has made clear that merely labeling otherwise prohibited conduct "inspection authority" will not fly.

The two biggest vulnerabilities of the statute IMO are 1)the blanket provision allowing GW to enter any private property that game animals may inhabit (which includes the vast majority of all property in Texas) and 2)the provision allowing searches of any receptacle that may hold game. Depending on the circumstances, both are subject to challenge.

For example, if a GW was sent onto private property as a "pretext" or if a cooler was in a camp house.

No question, however, that the statute controls unless and until the Courts say it doesn't.


Elaborate on the "pretext" if you would.


Another LE agency sending a GW in to inspect private property for other suspected violations.

In re-reading Chapter 12 it appears "pretext" is not possible given that information not directly related to the purposes of the investigation/research appears to be not disclosable without landowner consent. So I stand corrected.


That's what I thought you were getting at. Like a game warden inspecting a property and finding something suspicious while the DEA is cued up at the front gate?


The SCOTUS has continuously held that entry into an open field, whether trespassing or not, is not a search under the meaning of the Fourth Amendment. A home and the curtilage (yard) around it are protected, but outside the curtilage there is no expectation of privacy. Fences and no trespassing signs mean nothing to the "Open Fields Doctrine".

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