Just some representative pics through the FLIR RS64-35mm of some deer hanging around my game cam tree at 175 yards in the dark on a nice night, the forest canopy is @ 225 yards and you can easily see into the tree canopy out 300 yards plus.

The FOV and resolution are very similar to my expensive FLIR GS T-70 Thermal Clip-Ons...

I'll post some video tomorrow when I get a chance.

Here is a You-Tube video of the FLIR RS64-35mm thermal weapon scope of some deer out back of the house, my game cam tree they are standing around is a laser measured 175 yards distant, the beginning of the slash pine tree canopy behind that is 225 yards and you can see out into the canopy 300 or so yards clearly. The deer are from 175 to 225 yards in the video.

Pitch black dark out, 50*F, no fog or rain.

You can run the video on 720 pixels as that is what it is recorded at for better clarity and representation of what you actually see though the scope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m3rnZg0wcE&feature=youtu.be

This is my favorite combination for the kind of hunting that we do at night, a 640 core with a 35mm lens, everything out 225 yards is toast with a precise shot placement.

The 320 core and 35mm lens will get the same job done with 1/2 the FOV and a little more blur but still work real well.

The FOV with that 640 is what is killer, at 1X the FOV at 200 yards distance is almost 100 yards, at 2X it is 50 yards, at 4X it is 25 yards, and at 8X it is still about 10 yards.

With a 320 core and a 35mm lens you will get 1/2 this FOV and a little more blur but will still perform pretty good at this range.

Here is a representative video of the FLIR RS64-35mm thermal system at 125 yards of looking at a possum hanging around some dead hog offal adjacent to the alligator pond in my backyard, the game cam tree is 175 yards out and the slash pine tree canopy is 225 yards out.

WARNING: No possum was injured during the filming of this thermal video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPEa498rvw

Again, you can run the video in 720 HD full screen to get an idea of the thermal performance of this system...

Kill video later....

Video of 200 pound hog dropping dead @ 175 yards with SIG 556 with FLIR RS64-35mm thermal weapon scope using IMI Razor NATO 77grain Sierra MatchKing ammo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpH6W8RjyYo

Thanks for the vids through the actual RS scope. I was afraid of what materialized.

In your deer video, the video image freezes at 6, 29, 50, 1:12, 1:33, 1:58, and maybe a couple of times thereafter, but I stopped watching closely.

In the hog kill vid you just posted, the vid freezes up at about 18 seconds.

The "freezing up" of the imagery appears to be what happens in the PS32 which is a recalibration process that goes on automatically. While not a serious issue in a spotting scope like the PS32, it could be an issue of you are trying to shoot at the time that the unit decides to freeze up the image. That can definitely mess up a shot. As can be seen in the first video, the process happens quite a lot as well.

The Tau2 core microbolometer in the RS scopes, like the PS/LS civilian handhelds, all have the automatic NUC to correlate the thermoresistors in the focal array plane via an automatic internal shutter all to unity.

Since during both of those videos, I had turned on the thermal scope at the same time as the video recorder, the instruments will undergo a more frequent series of NUCs for about the first two minutes until they settle down. After about two minutes when everything is normalized, the NUCs become much less frequent, like about every 5-6 minutes or so.

If I had the scope on for ten minutes, there would not be any NUCs happening hardly at all.

You can also perform a manual NUC anytime that you want to manually.


None of my military FLIR GS Thermal scope have an automatic NUC to reset the focal array, you have to do it manually all the time yourself.

Of course, all my GS scopes were designed under military contract to allow for manual NUC only and they each cost over 2X the price of the FLIR RS series scopes.

They do have the same FLIR Tau2 cores, just with different design configurations for the military/civilian market.

Most civilians complain about having to perform a manual NUC with the lens cover on, and then having to put the lens cover or their hand over the objective lens again whenever the unit needs another NUC recalibration of the thermal resistors.

The FLIR RS series DOES NOT require any manual NUC and it performs a NUC without having to put the lens cap or your hand over the objective lens, it does it internally and there is no need to place the cap back over the lens as in the military versions.

In a military sniper human life or death issue, the manual NUC is preferred, however in the civilian market the manual NUC is not needed.

Can you turn off the automatic NUC and ONLY do it manually?

No you cannot, the automatic shutter uniform correction on the civilian 9HZ, 30Hz, or 60Hz thermal camera cores all function the same way.

On the Tau2 microbolomter version utilized in the civilian line of thermal video cameras they all undergo an automatic non-uniform correction to bring the thermal resistors to unity as needed based on internal software alogrithims.

Nor can you program in an automatic NUC into any of the military grade Tau2 Thermal Weapon scopes, they are manual only and you must put the lens cap back on over the lens each and every time before bringing the focal plane back to unity again.

That is a required necessity for ALL thermal cameras to work.

There may need to be some fair and balanced here...

Concerning the auto cal. Yes, it auto cals periodically, but seemed to me more like every couple of minutes or so. I am not sure what they use in the firmware to determine when to cal, but I suspect conditions may cause it to cal more often. It wasn't a great concern, but yes, coming at the wrong time it could be a bit problematic. I understand that the new ATN's, or at least some models, are shipping with auto cal also. The issue to me is that if you need a cal, you need a cal. The sight picture gets grainy, you fix it by auto or manual cal.

I had the RS32 4 x 16X. FLIR chose, maybe as a cost savings, to use an LCD screen as opposed to the OLED ATN uses. I heard or read somewhere that there was some fiddling with the firmware as in "smoothing". Regardless, the units I have observed in comparison to the ATN's are not quite as clear. There is a slight dip in contrast. It isn't terrible, just a noticeable difference when comparing back to back.

I do like one feature on the FLIR that isn't often talked about. Using the 4 x 16... If you are in X1 (4X) and depress and hold the up button, it will rise up through the magnification. You can stop anywhere, 1.2, 1.4, 2.7. This gives you an opportunity to easily zoom up a bit for better recognition, but you can stop before it gets too pixelated. Pushing the down button reverses it.

The black rubber surface allows for a good, firm, no drop grip, but also attracts dirt and dust like crazy.

Because we sometimes hunt all night...and hunt most of it almost any night out, battery life is a concern. I will say the internal FLIR battery does seem to last well, but we have not been able to get a run time down yet. It does take it quite a long time to fully charge using the provided charger. Grass grows quicker. Though I am not aware that FLIR has or will be offering a backup external battery, there will be one on the market very soon. I see it as a necessary element if you want to be prepared. A dead battery means end of the hunt and a long charge time.

This brings up another issue. You cannot charge or use an external battery and record video at the same time. This could be troublesome if you like to record your hunts. Lets say your battery has gone low and you are about to or have just connected an external battery and suddenly your target appears...you fiddle with disconnecting the external power and connecting the video...then the scope goes completely off...or in fiddling with it, the target leaves. It may not be a big issue at all if you don't care about recording, but if you do...and as all of us know that do, this sort of thing has a way of happening at just the wrong time....it can absolutely ruin an opportunity... The decision to configure the scope this way was not a good one in my opinion.

Sighting in was easy. I used the one shot zero method and it worked out pretty good.

I like the size and weight. The attached lens covers are nice too.

We also had the RS32 1.25 - 5X unit. I don't consider it much of a useful hunting tool.

In the end, I like it that FLIR is now trying to offer a viable commercial product. It will evolve over time. For me however, the ATN still offers enough of a better sight picture than the current FLIR's that I give it the edge.

That is just my honest, straight forward opinion...yours may vary and I respect that.

Disclaimer: I am not a dealer of these products. Nor am I paid by anyone for this "review". I have received no discount, equipment or renumeration of any kind.

I am not a dealer or paid by anyone either, I am a molecular geneticist and I purchase and use all my own equipment for land management purposes on my own properties.

I also respect anyone else opinions, but do question your "fair and balanced" notation?

Does ATN use FLIR microbolometers? Does ATN use FLIR germanium lenses? Does ATN use FLIR software alogrithims? Is ATN warranty on all their FLIR equipment the same as FLIR's? Seems to me that ATN's equipment is made by FLIR to begin with but they package it themselves. My friends ATN Thor 640 died and has been sent back for repair since December, he still has no word when it will be repaired?

Like I said, the only reason the unit auto calibrated more often than usual is because I had just turned the unit on, after 5-10 minutes the auto NUC pretty much disappears. In any case, it is not something that is problematic for a hunting situation.

If you want to have the unit on for 100 hours straight, just plug in a USB power backup source to it.

I have an Anker 15,000mAh USB charger in my truck in case I would need to charge it up in the field for the last two years during anyone of our numerous hardcore all night hunt outings, never once have I ever used the Anker to recharge out in the field yet, however it is nice to have it as insurance in case I ever need it, so far I have never needed it though.

And you are correct, you cannot be charging the battery and taking video output at the same time since they both use the same USB port.

Here is the "fiddling" that you heard about somewhere in FLIR's DDE alogrithim for their noncooled Vanadium oxide microbolometers in the Tau2 and Quark cores.

This is a proprietary alogrithim that FLIR does not sell to outside vendors who re-brand their equipment and it is incorporated into all of the FLIR RS series of thermal weapon scopes as a standard feature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfY3AOKF5gA

Many people are unaware of FLIR's DDE software alogrithim that enhances their thermal sight images.

Here is an explanation of why DDE is important at times:


Only under extreme unfavorable environmental conditions do I even use FLIR's proprietary DDE (Digital Detail Enhancement) to bring out the background contrast above a linear thermal gradient. DDE is basically a spatial filter designed to enhance the high spatial frequencies (edges etc.). The DDE filter attenuates high amplitude signals, making more of the total dynamic range available to display faint objects and details. The amount of attenuation is automatically determined by analyzing scene statistics.

Here is a link to FLIR's excellent Digital Detail Enhancement proprietary alogrithium:

http://www.flir.com/uploadedfiles/Eu...TN_0003_EN.pdf


Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) helps the human eye to see targets more easily using thermal imaging.

Human eyesight can only distinguish about 128 levels of grey in an image (7 bit signal).

A Long Wave Infra Red microbolometer core is assimilating in excess of 15,000 levels of grey (14 bit signal) and has to transform this into a 7 bit signal which the human eye can distinguish - otherwise a target will go undetected.

FLIR Systems developed Digital Detail Enhancement (DDE) to help make targets more readily visible.

DDE magnifies all details equally - so a small hot spot against a cold background will be just as clear to see and not be lost amid the dominant background temperatures.

This overcomes a major problem and is extremely important in acute circumstances.

It is an exclusive FLIR Systems product and is incorporated into all its thermal imaging products using Tau2 and Quark microbolometer cores.

Dude, I'm not here to argue with you. I see you are on every forum all day, every day, espousing the benefits of FLIR. You are clearly a huge fan. Good for you. I'm glad you felt the need to clear it up that you are not a full on FLIR rep, because your loyalty has made more than a few folks wonder. You know, post after post, picture after picture, forum after forum, all day, every day...singing one song.

I recognize the connection between ATN and FLIR, but am told ATN gets their lenses elsewhere. As I stated, the difference isn't huge, but it is there. FLIR uses an LCD, ATN uses an OLED. That alone can be the difference in a slightly improved sight picture. I mean, it is absolutely a preceptible difference. I am not the only one to notice this. We sat comparing them the other night. Folks that know this stuff. Folks that use it almost daily.

I will not disagree with you that ATN has questionable customer service. Seems to be fine at times, terrible at others. They really need to work on that. Heck, it may in fact be enough for some to accept a slightly lesser sight picture in order to have the FLIR customer service peace of mind. You see, I'm not all one way on this.

As to the battery charging and use vs using the video output issue, can you not at least acknowledge that this did not have to be? That it does take away some functionality? You should not have to switch cables in the dark just to record video.

As to "numerous outdoor all night hunt hardcore outings".....we do that over here in Texas too. We were out until 4 am Monday night (Tuesdsay morning)and after midnight on Tuesday. This goes on pretty much weekly to a greater or lesser extent. So, yes, we get a little experience with this stuff too....and I like/dislike products from a variety of manufacturers.

The post was my experience and my viewpoint...something to point out what I saw. The bad and the good. Every album has more than one side to one degree or the other.

Dude, this entire thread is about new FLIR Thermal scopes as the OP started it, the only posts I made are with my own equipment on my own properties, no one elses.

If you have a problem with me purchasing and using my FLIR instruments on my properties, why don't you try asking me about the rest of my personal life history too?

At least for every response like this I do get another three dozen PM's thanking me for educating people unfamiliar with thermal imagery.

So be it.

As for your need for me to make some sort of statement that I am not a FLIR Representative, I am not, how is that, satisfied?

Now you want me to explain to you why I invest in FLIR products to help manage my properties instead of ATN, Aramsight, Luna, etc.?

To educate requires an open mind. If you only relate one side of the story because your experience is only with that one side, the folks you are attempting to inform will not get the full picture.

The OP did not start this thread about FLIR scope(s), plural. The OP mentioned one FLIR scope. IMHO, the scope he referred to is not a very useful hunting tool. The sight image is way too small. The price is cheap and may soothe an ego into thinking they have a thermal to hunt with, but I believe they will be sorely disappointed with it in actual use. You have gone on to make the thread what YOU wanted it to be about, you and all the other FLIR scopes that have no bearing on his original question.

I like the FLIR well enough, but there are a couple of things you fail to see...or want to see. Do I think some of the models are good and useful for most folks hunting purposes? Heck yeah... Are they an exceptional value as compared to the competition? No, not really....but I have confidence FLIR will work on that. They are a good company. I could come on here and be a full blown FLIR commercial too, but it wouldn't be honest..nor helpful to others or FLIR.

Real life example earlier this week... I get everything together and head to a blind for the first part of the night. I want to set my recorder up, but I forgot something....a freaking USB to micro cable. You can't record using a RS Series FLIR without that and a conversion connector or a conversion plug that takes the connection from micro USB to whatever connector your DVR records with. As far as I know, that is not provided with the scope. All of these companies are using different plugs thse days which means you have to have all sorts of cables if you want to connect your DVR to a variety of scopes. It makes you crazy. But never in my life did I figure the lack of a USB to micro cable would be something that would keep me from recording my hunt....

Anyway, best to you bud, hope you get the tattoo and eveything...

Nope, it was about one model of RS. It wasn't about the T70 or videos or your hunting with the T70 or any other models of FLIR scopes new or otherwise, LOL.

As for the picture above of the snake showing up so well, that is something of a fluke. Before anybody gets the wrong "educated" idea that thermal is good for seeing snakes, it is not. Snakes are poikilothermic, what most folks incorrectly call "cold-blooded." Basically, it means that they do not generate their own body heat and regulate their body temperatures through behavior. They tend to be very close to ambient temperature with the ground or their immediate environment, particularly after dark when the sun goes down and they are no longer benefitting from sunning. So during the time most people will be using a thermal scope for hunting, at night, will be the time that the thermal scope is least useful for spotting snakes.

There are exceptions. If you are fortunate enough to spot a snake that very recently left the confines of rocks heated up during the day and is now cruising over cooler ground, the snake will appear warmer than the ground, but this only lasts a period of minutes and I have watched this occur out in Fort Davis. The other is being able to see the bulge of a very freshly eaten mouse that warms the snake where it is bulging. Pretty neat, but unusual to see much of in the wild.

The COE is even testing the use of thermal to find pythons in Florida and while promising, it is also quite limited and the best time for locating them is just during the day.
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/11194067/thermal-imaging-tested-to-find-pythons

Thanks for all that wonderful information!

Don't know how I could have educated myself without it...

Next time I spend $60K on property management tools for the next ten years, I'll be sure to get your opinion first!

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread entitled, "New FLIR Thermal Scope."

Here is a video of 200 pound hog dropping dead @ 175 yards with SIG 556 with FLIR RS64-35mm thermal weapon scope using IMI Razor NATO 77grain Sierra MatchKing ammo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpH6W8RjyYo


DRT!

BTW, just so this video does not upset someone somewhere, I do not work for SIG Sauer, Sierra Bullets, or Israeli Military Industries....

Well, no sir, you still don't get it.

The OP asked specifically about the scope under $3,500 bucks. He is asking specifically about a scope with a 240 core and a 1X mag. Your video was of a 640 core sight with a much bigger lens and the shot was taken at a much greater mag than he would have.

It is absolutely not representative of what he should expect or receive. It is misleading to say the least.

Right! In your opinion, I have specifically mislead him and for that fraud I must personally apologize.....

Yes, as I thought... The ATN lenses are made by Janos Tech (42 years experience). Again, they are using an OLED vs the FLIR LCD. Those two items are more than enough to explain the more "crisp" image folks are noticing on the ATN.

To the OP, I stand on the fact that you will not be satisfied with the $3,500 scope for hunting. A 240 core, 1X, 13mm lens thermal weapon sight is a miserable tool. Save a little more money and get something you will enjoy much more. You might check with Bearclaw here on the forum. He was offering the 320, 2X, 35mm for just $500 more. And you also get a 60Hz system vs a 30 Hz system as well. He is a full channel distributor also. FLIR is a great company that is known to offer excellent customer service. There are other scopes in their lineup that will work very well for your hunting purposes.

Those are facts you can rely on and they answer your original inquiry...

Walter,
I have personally used the RS32 1.25x. The RS24(the $3500 unit you referenced) is a lesser unit than the RS32 1.25x and IMHO neither is the ideal hunting scope for the same reason I wouldn't suggest a 1x day optic for hunting. You need magnification. Some people may say that this is a 1-4x scope, but really it isn't safely usable past 1x because the image is too degraded by the digital zoom. Speaking from experience, a 1x 240 core is not enough resolution or magnification. You will be underwhelmed. My advise is to rent a unit before you buy so you can experience first hand everything I'm talking about. It's the only way to truly educate yourself on how thermal technology works for your hunting situation and if its worth your hard earned money. The RS32 2x will be available for rent later this month, and the RS32 4X and RS64 2x will all be available for rent once we meet our customers pre-orders. Every penny of the rental goes towards a purchase if you decide to pick one up. Keep in mind there are other units out there for under $4,000 but resolution and magnification are usually the reason why they are cheaper. Beware of anyone who sells you on the idea that anything under a 320 core resolution or 2x optical magnification(not including digital zoom) is ideal for hunting, It's not.

Here is an image from the RS32 1.25x scope:

FLIR ThermoSight RS32 1.25X


Feel free to pm me or call in. Thanks

Tyler