Thanks for posting guys. Need more stuff like this - similar issues with sheep too.

One nit I have to pick. 'Persian' is an actual wild species of ibex from Iran, but we don't use it that way. A 'Persian' in Texas means nearly any hybrid with decent coloration. I would love to get my hands on some real Persians, but have yet to find any that I'd trust as advertised.

Likewise....the Persians released in New Mexico are probably the best examples of pure Persians in the U.S. I don't know if there are any truly pure Persians to be found in Texas these days.

I created this thread not to expose someone, but rather to help educate hunters and fellow breeders. With the wild sheep and goats they will interbreed with (different goats species) and (different sheep species). When hunters are educated to what a pure ibex or a hybrid ibex looks like then they will begin to demand that from the outfitters. When we started breeding European Mouflon 23 years ago we were basically at the same cross roads that the ibex are today. Most ranches carried mouflon hybrids advertised as pure mouflons. Some of this was intentionally and some just didn't know what a pure mouflon looked like. Most thought if they had a heart shaped horn and a white saddle that it was a pure mouflon. Many of those animals had 7 or 8 inch tails. A pure mouflon's tail is going to be around 4 inches. All true wild sheep have short tails. At the time there were not many mouflon breeders around other than some of the bigger ranches. Most of those ranches had pastures where all their mouflons ran together. They might of had 200 sheep in a pasture, but they were of all ages and numerous rams. They might of been all good rams, but you really didn't know what the lambs were out of except that they were out of this herd. Most of these ranches also employed a practice when they had surplus animals they took them to the sale. No documenting breeding whatsoever. I took a lead in what I saw the whitetail breeders doing. They had single sired herds, in other words they had one buck with a group of does. I started doing the same with our mouflons and keeping up with the breeding. About this time I started selling Terry Long some of our breeding stock and he did the same thing. I sold him a young ram by the name "Okie". That ram is probably the most well known mouflon in the world. He had width, depth, and length in his horns, plus great color. He was 40+ inches long.

Whether we knew what we were doing at first or not, we created a breeders market for European Mouflons. It caught on quick and other breeders started doing the same thing. In 23 years of breeding mouflons I have only sold rams to outfitters 2 or 3 times and never had to take them to sales, because there was and is today a great breeders market. I sold here from my house to people all over the country. After I wrote the book "Mouflon World" it seemed even to take off more and people began to cull and clean out their herds. Today there is some great mouflon genetics available, but it took many people coming together willing to help each other out, wanting to help the breed and not trying to get rich. Now I am seeing this beginning to happen with the ibex breeders. If we are proactive the same can happen with the ibex.

Great write up rickey. I'm glad we're going to get a registry going for ibex. it'll help a lot. exciting times.

Some more examples on WLB right now. "pure" persians with white points. . . .

Thanks Rickey...and everyone else for posting the great pix....and the comparisons tell the story.... I used to show dogs for several years and an old successful breeder told me....... Always breed to better the breed.... If the animals you are bringing together don't make a better animal... Then don't do it. It's harder with these types of animals because there are different species cohabiting with each other and we never did that with our dogs... We were breed specific. I've learned a lot from this thread... Thanks.
Diane

I think thats my mail man with the beard.

heres a goat i shot here in california for $500 a few years ago. He is a cool looking ibex type horns, but i think he just a big angora goat with horns shooting straight back.

Brett, where did you hunt in Ca? I know they have a few ranches there. I hunted with Hoss Hog in Maxwell Ca. We had a great hunt. I would like to find a few other ranches outside of Texas. That way I could drive to a hunt every now and then. Thanks, Also I have found this whole thread very informative. Thank you to all, I have learned a bunch that will serve me well
later.

i hunted this goat at carrizo plains exotics in central cali. another good high fence place and hog hunting is bitterwater outfitters. haven't been to hoss hog yet but heard about it. not too many high fence places here in cali, lol

Cool looking goat, Brett.

That is a cool looking goat! I like it...whatever it is.

Ditto... The price was unbelievable for that nice of a trophy... Bet he looks great on the wall!

I shot one of those "Spanish Goats" that looks ibex-esq in California as well. It was also on the central coast, forget the name of the ranch, but it was owned by the Twisslemen family. If I recall correctly, also paid about $500. That's one of the things that struck me as odd as the exotic goat and sheep seem cheaper in CA than TX ... about the only thing that is.

have anyone horns for me to sell which look like this?
we need this in austria, and have not enough

I don't get why people feel the need to misrepresent stuff.

Some of those non ibex goats look fine.

Sweet geezus I hope we don't start a registry on pure bloods for rednecks like me... I probably wouldn't make the cut!

I'd never make it either!!

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me toooo!!

You aren't registered? I even got papers.

I think we had some similar discussion before regarding sheep. It boiled down to as a hunter/buyer (particularly a buyer who wants to breed the animals) you need to do your research and be knowledgeable and deal with reputable people.

I think some outfitters may know what they have and just sell it for a pure animal, but other may not know as they are just selling to the hunter what they were told the animal is.

Boils down to doing your research and dealing with reputable people....and knowing what you are getting. BTW, here is nothing wrong with some of these hybrids...you just need to know what it is you are getting and
are happy with the experience/deal.

I think, as a hunter, if you like it... Shoot it.