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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: JDShellnut]
#4690886
10/25/13 06:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 421
Cole P
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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For the record, I said he could enter the property. You said he could not enter the property unless he suspected game laws where being broke. That isn't true. That was what my response was to. I never said he could drag the deer back although I think some of them would if they found it. But your still wrong because he cant enter the property just because he wants to or wants to look around. He has to suspect something... like probable cause without a warrant. Looking for a downed deer does not meet that standard. Yes he can. Read the laws. "Sec. 12.103. ENTERING LAND; USE OF INFORMATION OBTAINED BY ENTRY; CIVIL PENALTY. (a) To enforce the game and fish laws of the state and to conduct scientific investigations and research regarding wild game or fish, an authorized employee of the department may enter on any land or water where wild game or fish are known to range or stray. No action may be sustained against an employee of the department to prevent his entering on land or water when acting in his official capacity as described by this subsection." It can't be spelled out any better than that. What game and fish laws/ scientific investigation would the warden be performing by looking for a downed deer across a property line?
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Erich]
#4690932
10/25/13 07:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,314
KG68
THF Trophy Hunter
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a warden can enter anyone's property for any reason. he doesn't need a warrant. he does not need to suspect illegal activity. all he needs is to suspect "activity" and he has the right to enter the property and check licenses and whatever else.
a wounded deer that crosses a property line cannot be retrieved unless permission has been secured from that property owner.
a game warden may not retrieve a wounded animal without the permission of that landowner. the only exception being if it is suspected that this animal was wounded illegally as an act of poaching and he needs it as evidence. then he can go.
but if it was a legally shot animal. and their is no permission from the property owner....then the animal is un-retrievable.
remember texas game laws define hunting as "the TAKING or attempted TAKING of a wildlife resource" taking means just that, taking....picking up a dead animal on the road is considered taking and is considered hunting.
a game warden has no authority to hunt or take on anyone's property unless permission has been given. he only has access to investigate the legal/illegal nature of any sort of hunting/fishing that may be taking place on the property. he cannot force the landowner to allow you access...nor can he claim the deer for you under those circumstancs. This makes to much sense to be true. 
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: billkd]
#4690934
10/25/13 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,605
Leonardo
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I can tell you what happened to me last year during this situation and the previous year we were on the other end of it.
Last year a buddy shot a buck and wounded a deer that we watched get over the fence through the woods. We lease this place and don't know the neighbors but left a note on the gate. They never responsed but we notified the Game Warden the next day and he came to assist in our search.
He did not let us cross the fence until we could prove the wounded animal made it across. We found blood on our side and then on their side a few feet away. At that time we all crossed the fence and continued our search. The Warden ended our search when we lost the blood trail and couldn't see the animal in a close distance. He had zero contact with the other landowner or their lease members.
Different lease and Warden but the year prior we found evidence of a deer being killed and drug on our property. We contacted the Warden and he told us that he assisted in the recovery of that deer and knew exactly where we were standing. Said the adjoining hunter showed him proof of where the deer was shot and they made the recovery on our side of the fence.
I have no idea other than what I read through here of the actual law but both instances ended in the same results. Warden assisted recovery across a fence without notification.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Leonardo]
#4690952
10/25/13 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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I can tell you what happened to me last year during this situation and the previous year we were on the other end of it.
Last year a buddy shot a buck and wounded a deer that we watched get over the fence through the woods. We lease this place and don't know the neighbors but left a note on the gate. They never responsed but we notified the Game Warden the next day and he came to assist in our search.
He did not let us cross the fence until we could prove the wounded animal made it across. We found blood on our side and then on their side a few feet away. At that time we all crossed the fence and continued our search. The Warden ended our search when we lost the blood trail and couldn't see the animal in a close distance. He had zero contact with the other landowner or their lease members.
Different lease and Warden but the year prior we found evidence of a deer being killed and drug on our property. We contacted the Warden and he told us that he assisted in the recovery of that deer and knew exactly where we were standing. Said the adjoining hunter showed him proof of where the deer was shot and they made the recovery on our side of the fence.
I have no idea other than what I read through here of the actual law but both instances ended in the same results. Warden assisted recovery across a fence without notification. I don't believe the GW needs to contact the people leasing the property for hunting purposes he only needs to contact the owner.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4690973
10/25/13 07:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 40,663
redchevy
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The worst part is... if you do cross the property line the only law your breaking as long as you don't have a gun is trespassing... How many people catch trespassers on their game cameras every year? What happens to them? They get warned about whats gonna happen if they do it again and let go. Not like your gonna go to jail. Nothing really stopping people from doing what they want anyhow.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: txshntr]
#4691472
10/25/13 11:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,715
grout-scout
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a warden can enter anyone's property for any reason. he doesn't need a warrant. he does not need to suspect illegal activity. all he needs is to suspect "activity" and he has the right to enter the property and check licenses and whatever else.
a wounded deer that crosses a property line cannot be retrieved unless permission has been secured from that property owner.
a game warden may not retrieve a wounded animal without the permission of that landowner. the only exception being if it is suspected that this animal was wounded illegally as an act of poaching and he needs it as evidence. then he can go.
but if it was a legally shot animal. and their is no permission from the property owner....then the animal is un-retrievable.
remember texas game laws define hunting as "the TAKING or attempted TAKING of a wildlife resource" taking means just that, taking....picking up a dead animal on the road is considered taking and is considered hunting.
a game warden has no authority to hunt or take on anyone's property unless permission has been given. he only has access to investigate the legal/illegal nature of any sort of hunting/fishing that may be taking place on the property. he cannot force the landowner to allow you access...nor can he claim the deer for you under those circumstancs. I agree with this. This guy sounds like a warden because that's pretty much what I was told. (Hence my earlier post where I said they can do anything they want)
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: ffread]
#4691650
10/26/13 01:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 957
robbf213
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A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem. Nope. He has to follow the same laws as any other LEO. He must have reasonable suspicion of hunting or fishing (probable cause) to enter the property. Then how come they always use them for drug bust and stuff, I have always heard that they do not have to have a search warrant like cops do! I am not saying yes or no I am just asking, I am a fireman and have no clue about what cops and wardens can do but sometimes get curious! We work together all the time but they do their business and we do ours and I usually do not ask many questions It doesn't have anything to do with powers granted or needing/not needing a search warrant. TX GW's are probably the most highly trained LEO in the state, hence, the longest academy, almost eight months. They are trained to do everything a city policeman, county deputy and State Troopers do plus the Parks and Wildlife code. Many smaller counties rely on them due to the lack of manpower and that level of training they posess. When the time comes to kick a door you want people who you can trust. I want the person behind me to have advanced skills and to be safe, not some ill trained Bubba with his muzzle pointed at my back with his finger on the trigger. Erich is spot on with his reply.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: redchevy]
#4691695
10/26/13 02:01 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,143
mow
Veteran Tracker
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a crime has been commited if reasonable effort has not been made to retrieve animal..so game warden has justifyable reason..i think
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: mow]
#4691716
10/26/13 02:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
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OP
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a crime has been commited if reasonable effort has not been made to retrieve animal..so game warden has justifyable reason..i think If you track your deer to the fence, then ask permission to cross and you're told no, it's deemed unrecoverable......no laws broken.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: robbf213]
#4691879
10/26/13 03:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,305
JDShellnut
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A game warden has more authority over any other state employee. He can do whatever he chooses and go wherever he chooses. It would be interesting to see if he'd get the deer, I'd bet he would not. Not his problem. Nope. He has to follow the same laws as any other LEO. He must have reasonable suspicion of hunting or fishing (probable cause) to enter the property. Then how come they always use them for drug bust and stuff, I have always heard that they do not have to have a search warrant like cops do! I am not saying yes or no I am just asking, I am a fireman and have no clue about what cops and wardens can do but sometimes get curious! We work together all the time but they do their business and we do ours and I usually do not ask many questions It doesn't have anything to do with powers granted or needing/not needing a search warrant. TX GW's are probably the most highly trained LEO in the state, hence, the longest academy, almost eight months. They are trained to do everything a city policeman, county deputy and State Troopers do plus the Parks and Wildlife code. Many smaller counties rely on them due to the lack of manpower and that level of training they posess. When the time comes to kick a door you want people who you can trust. I want the person behind me to have advanced skills and to be safe, not some ill trained Bubba with his muzzle pointed at my back with his finger on the trigger. Erich is spot on with his reply. I hoped you would show up eventually.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: JDShellnut]
#4692240
10/26/13 12:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,783
passthru
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Someone let me know when we have the real answer. This is too long and crazy to keep up with.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Growin Wild Outdoors]
#4692305
10/26/13 01:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
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OK, stretching a little here but.........is it not against the law to waste a game animal? By refusing to let someone recover a deer laying just on your side and not recovering it yourself could be construed as waste?
Last edited by TF Panther; 10/26/13 10:55 PM.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: passthru]
#4692324
10/26/13 01:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 94
billkd
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
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Posts: 94 |
Erich and Robb come across like they have reason to know what they're talking about and not just trying to interpret the law like most of us are. I'm going with what they say.
My only question is can a warden enter a property if they have no reason to believe that hunting or fishing or any other wildlife related activiyy is taking place? In other words, he can go in just because he wants to as long as game lives there?
That's what I think some here are saying and I would have a problem with that. Not saying that's not the law, just that I would not like it at all. There has to be some limit on the intrusiveness of government.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: TF Panther]
#4692335
10/26/13 01:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,211
don k
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OK, stretching a little here but.........is it not against the law to waste a game animal? By refusing to let someone recover a deer laying just on your side and not recovering it yourself could be construed as waste? How do you know for sure it is on that property? If it was not wounded very bad it may be on a completely different owners property. It may never be found.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: passthru]
#4692340
10/26/13 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,644
ZombieGun
Pro Tracker
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Does the lady even have anything posted for "No Trespassing"??
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4696041
10/28/13 01:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,605
Leonardo
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 5,605 |
I can tell you what happened to me last year during this situation and the previous year we were on the other end of it.
Last year a buddy shot a buck and wounded a deer that we watched get over the fence through the woods. We lease this place and don't know the neighbors but left a note on the gate. They never responsed but we notified the Game Warden the next day and he came to assist in our search.
He did not let us cross the fence until we could prove the wounded animal made it across. We found blood on our side and then on their side a few feet away. At that time we all crossed the fence and continued our search. The Warden ended our search when we lost the blood trail and couldn't see the animal in a close distance. He had zero contact with the other landowner or their lease members.
Different lease and Warden but the year prior we found evidence of a deer being killed and drug on our property. We contacted the Warden and he told us that he assisted in the recovery of that deer and knew exactly where we were standing. Said the adjoining hunter showed him proof of where the deer was shot and they made the recovery on our side of the fence.
I have no idea other than what I read through here of the actual law but both instances ended in the same results. Warden assisted recovery across a fence without notification. I don't believe the GW needs to contact the people leasing the property for hunting purposes he only needs to contact the owner. I completely understand that but the land owners were not contacted in either situation. I know for a fact because I brought up the question.
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Leonardo]
#4696057
10/28/13 01:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,200
dawaba
Extreme Tracker
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Leroy never bothered to read the law if he thought for one second trouble was brewing in Brown County. He always sorta marched to his own drumbeat.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: redchevy]
#4700014
10/29/13 10:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 980
ryorgensen
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To answer the ops question...YES he can. They do it all the time. They walk in from highway to deer camps in gates closed. The game belongs to the State and not landowner...(which would be a good topic as well,lol) They enter places where they suspect hunting... If they know there is no hunting on the place and the landowner says no its still a no to me. So,a landowner can say no and that's it? Doubtful...especially if the one shooting knows the GW and tell him it was a trophy. The GW just has to say he needs to check if deer is legal...end of story then..GW has probable cause. Red chevy I have a hard time believing you've heard of this happening many times in which a GW was denied access by LO..I call bs..or there's a wimpy GW around your parts and I doubt it's the latter.....
Robert
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Cole P]
#4700024
10/29/13 10:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 980
ryorgensen
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What game and fish laws/ scientific investigation would the warden be performing by looking for a downed deer across a property line?[/quote
Making sure the deer his friend shot that ran on the arseholes land is a legal deer meets the game laws.....nothing landowner can do if GW says he suspects deer is not legal...
Robert
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: ryorgensen]
#4700120
10/29/13 12:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,211
don k
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What game and fish laws/ scientific investigation would the warden be performing by looking for a downed deer across a property line?[/quote
Making sure the deer his friend shot that ran on the arseholes land is a legal deer meets the game laws.....nothing landowner can do if GW says he suspects deer is not legal...
If the deer was a legal deer what gives the GW the right to remove it from the property without the landowners permission?
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: ryorgensen]
#4700245
10/29/13 01:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
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Making sure the deer his friend shot that ran on the arseholes land is a legal deer meets the game laws.....nothing landowner can do if GW says he suspects deer is not legal...
What makes the land owner an "arsehole"? Not wanting every person within a mile of his fences running all over his place looking for "wounded" deer?
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4703091
10/30/13 02:26 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 980
ryorgensen
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Making sure the deer his friend shot that ran on the arseholes land is a legal deer meets the game laws.....nothing landowner can do if GW says he suspects deer is not legal...
What makes the land owner an "arsehole"? Not wanting every person within a mile of his fences running all over his place looking for "wounded" deer? Everyone within a mile? Seriously...first of this a rare situation . 99% of time landowners are good people and neighbors . Rare that the GW even be called out over this kid crap. If someone shot a deer that ran on my land ,heck I would help them locate it and help drag it! Another thing is most of the time the deer aren't far past fence.therefore no need to walk all over 1000 acres! I shot a deer with my bow that crossed the fence and I talked to landowner and he helped me track it. Another time I had a deer cross fence and man it was goin to be a long drag out! After the l o gave permission to look for Deer,he also told me to drive around and load deer where it was at! Like I said most are good people that'll go out of there way to help. The small percentage that doesn't well the GW will go get deer so long as it's close by...
Robert
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: don k]
#4703185
10/30/13 02:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 980
ryorgensen
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What game and fish laws/ scientific investigation would the warden be performing by looking for a downed deer across a property line?[/quote
Making sure the deer his friend shot that ran on the arseholes land is a legal deer meets the game laws.....nothing landowner can do if GW says he suspects deer is not legal...
If the deer was a legal deer what gives the GW the right to remove it from the property without the landowners permission? Is this jump on Robert day? Lol..jk...because that's what GW do...if the deer is close by he will get it. What gives him the right is the Badge that says he works for Texas Fish and Game. The deer belongs to the state and now it belongs to the hunter who shot it, and he needs to get his tag on it. Again, this is a very rare incident to where a LO won't let another LO go get deer just right past fence. Much less refusing to let GW...I'm not saying go looking all over the mans property but more saying to look around for deer within a reasonable distance .
Robert
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: ryorgensen]
#4704470
10/30/13 03:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
Buck Wilde
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 56 |
Game Warden can do as he pleases...
Take a Kid Hunting
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Re: Can a warden retrieve a wounded deer that has crossed property lines, without land owner permission?
[Re: Buck Wilde]
#4704539
10/30/13 03:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 645
Hogman4127
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Tracker
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A GW can go onto the property. Do not understand how people do not understand this. Think about it this way. A GW pulls up to your camp. He can search your coolers, camper, trucks. What makes anyone think he cannot walk onto property where there are game animals.
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