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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Sniper John]
#4572442
09/16/13 04:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
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ntxtrapper
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I have said it before and I will say it again..the open carry folks are doing nothing but harm to Texas gun owners. If the Travis County DA takes the case (and I bet they do because the elements of the offense include a deadly weapon not just a firearm) all I can say is good luck to them..most lawyers start at 15,000 for a jury trial.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#4572578
09/16/13 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,840
dogcatcher
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I have said it before and I will say it again..the open carry folks are doing nothing but harm to Texas gun owners. If the Travis County DA takes the case (and I bet they do because the elements of the offense include a deadly weapon not just a firearm) all I can say is good luck to them..most lawyers start at 15,000 for a jury trial. A real expensive "trip".
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4572907
09/16/13 06:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,418
Sniper John
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(17) "Deadly weapon" means: (A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or (B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
So, would a jury of mostly non gun owning peers say a cap and ball revolver can not inflict death and seriously bodily injury?
Disorderly conduct might be a reach, especially when there were others openly carrying rifles not detained. But remember it is not the pro gun persons on this forum that have to be convinced. What will be presented is to carry a long gun in public is normally lawful whereas it is not normally lawful to carry a centerfire revolver in public.
So another question might be, would a jury of mostly non gun owning peers say a resonable person can tell the difference between a cap and ball revolver lawfully being openly carried in a holster and a centerfire revolver that is unlawfully being carried in a holster? And could a reasonable person be alarmed by someone openly carrying a centerfire revolver in public when it is not normal to do so?
It will all come down to a determination of intent IMHO.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Sniper John]
#4573480
09/16/13 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
Jangle
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Actually the Voir dire rules of jury selection would more than likely end up with mostly gun owners if the defense attorney uses it properly. I doubt most prosecutors would want this case, they like ones that are easy wins.
"A competent leader can get efficient service from poor troops, while on the contrary an incapable leader can demoralize the best of troops." -- Gen. John J. Pershing
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Jangle]
#4573800
09/17/13 12:08 AM
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dogcatcher
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Actually the Voir dire rules of jury selection would more than likely end up with mostly gun owners if the defense attorney uses it properly. I doubt most prosecutors would want this case, they like ones that are easy wins. Remember only 37% of Americans are gun owners. Do you really want to gamble and spend maybe $15,000 to prove the law? Odds are you will win, but at what cost? And how many people will you tick off? They outnumber us. Myself I am too old to spend time in court getting my 10 minutes of You Tube fame. Beside the other 63% have the power to change the laws, why tick them off???
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4573926
09/17/13 12:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,232
Concho
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Actually the Voir dire rules of jury selection would more than likely end up with mostly gun owners if the defense attorney uses it properly. I doubt most prosecutors would want this case, they like ones that are easy wins. Remember only 37% of Americans are gun owners. Do you really want to gamble and spend maybe $15,000 to prove the law? Odds are you will win, but at what cost? And how many people will you tick off? They outnumber us. Myself I am too old to spend time in court getting my 10 minutes of You Tube fame. Beside the other 63% have the power to change the laws, why tick them off??? A wise man once told me to pick my battles and that bit of advice has kept me out of lots of trouble......I wouldn't what to end up in jail hoping my attorney could get the right jury to get me off, and I sure wouldn't want to spend my retirement money for 10 minutes in the spotlight.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Jangle]
#4573931
09/17/13 12:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,232
Concho
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Actually the Voir dire rules of jury selection would more than likely end up with mostly gun owners if the defense attorney uses it properly. I doubt most prosecutors would want this case, they like ones that are easy wins. Jangle, sorry to break this news to you, but jurors aren't picked, they are what's left over after the prosecution and defense get their strikes.........
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Sniper John]
#4574535
09/17/13 03:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,341
ntxtrapper
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(17) "Deadly weapon" means: (A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or (B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.
So, would a jury of mostly non gun owning peers say a cap and ball revolver can not inflict death and seriously bodily injury?
Disorderly conduct might be a reach, especially when there were others openly carrying rifles not detained. But remember it is not the pro gun persons on this forum that have to be convinced. What will be presented is to carry a long gun in public is normally lawful whereas it is not normally lawful to carry a centerfire revolver in public.
So another question might be, would a jury of mostly non gun owning peers say a resonable person can tell the difference between a cap and ball revolver lawfully being openly carried in a holster and a centerfire revolver that is unlawfully being carried in a holster? And could a reasonable person be alarmed by someone openly carrying a centerfire revolver in public when it is not normal to do so?
It will all come down to a determination of intent IMHO.
When I see folks walking around the parking lot of a gun show with a firearm, or a deadly weapon, I think nothing of it and I know what their intent is. When I see someone walking around Walmart or the capital with a firearm, or a deadly weapon, I believe their intent is to cause people to be alarmed by what they see, which is the primary element of the disorderly conduct statute.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: dgtxpride]
#4574551
09/17/13 03:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Cardbb4144
Light Foot
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Light Foot
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If you go to the link it makes reference to the Troopers carrying guns on their hips. People make a comparison and say "well if the cops carry a handgun openly then I should too" The whole premise behind that is because cops wear badges and patches that identify who they are so its no secret they are carrying a gun and there is no question they have a gun and no element of surprise when facing a criminal. How are you supposed to look at somebody walking around with a rifle in a downtown area and know what their intent is? Even at that how can you find that out if you don't talk to them and question them? Anytime someone is carrying a rifle around walking down your street should they never be investigated?
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Cardbb4144]
#4576045
09/17/13 06:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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I can't even begin to address the lack of common sense in some of these posts...
But I will address one thing: How is arresting a law-abiding citizen on completely trumped up charges related to investigating whether an open carrier is a threat?
It's not.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: target1911]
#4576133
09/17/13 07:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,069
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
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The sad part is they tried to cover their azz by charging them with something else after they realized they screwed up. That ain't right. I cant believe all of the idiots here that are slaming and talking trash about the guys that got illegally arrested. Who gives a crap about the motives of the OCers. They did NOT break any laws. What they did and what they were carrying was LEGAL. I support LEO but those Troopers were in the wrong. Ha it occurred to you that now the legislature will probably make it illegal. Many of them realize they are "targets" because they are politicians. Or did you think educating the public that it was legal would not cause the legislature to change open carry to illegal. Gun owners are about 37% of population, now think real hard about what the other 63% thinks and may want enough to influence legislation. So what you are saying is.....we have a legal right to open carry a CAP N BALL and long guns but we should not do it, even though it is perfectly LEGAL? Now that makes all kind of sense. The law ALLOWS it for a reason.....so we can do it. NOT so we can be scared of it. How else do you figure we should educate the public? News paper add? That will work for sure. Being that you (and others) think it is ridicules than what difference does it make to you if they change the law? Its also legal to jump in water that's full of sharks... its also legal grab a rattlesnake and let it bite you.... its also legal to eat a rusty nail.... They must all be good ideas since its legal
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Navasot]
#4576361
09/17/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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Its also legal to jump in water that's full of sharks... its also legal grab a rattlesnake and let it bite you.... its also legal to eat a rusty nail.... They must all be good ideas since its legal last I checked no one was trying to take away our right to jump in with the sharks.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#4577476
09/18/13 02:00 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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Its also legal to jump in water that's full of sharks... its also legal grab a rattlesnake and let it bite you.... its also legal to eat a rusty nail.... They must all be good ideas since its legal last I checked no one was trying to take away our right to jump in with the sharks. I also checked the constitution, and found no amendment specifically acknowledging and protecting my God given right to jump into shark infested waters, grab rattlesnakes, and eating rusty nails. If you find open carrying a rifle to be putting yourself in physical danger, then by all means, I agree: YOU should not open carry a rifle.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: cdoan02]
#4577552
09/18/13 02:12 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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And if I recall, there were no open carry demonstrators in Colorado until AFTER they began enacting draconian firearm laws. Only after those passed did open carry rallies begin to pop up. The demonstrators organizing these rallies were an important part of 2 senators being removed. They are also the ones pushing to have the ridiculous laws removed.
Sitting quietly trying to please everyone led to Colorado enacting draconian laws; open carry rallies led to the removal of the senators responsible for pushing the laws into place. Time will tell whether they succeed in removing the laws.
But I'm sure all of the open carry haters here know better. Even though recent history has proven you absolutely wrong, I'm sure you know what's best. Gun rights supporters should tone it down and lay low, and just assume laying low won't lead to the same results as it has time and time again.
Isn't the definition of crazy to do the same thing, but expect a different result?
Again, I commend and appreciate the open carry demonstrators for having the courage and commitment to put yourselves on the line for what is right. I'm glad that you've learned from history, and realize sitting around quietly in the shadows will lead to the same thing it's led to everywhere else: civilian disarmament. Thank you for standing up for the rights of all Americans; even the ones that refuse to look at and learn from past events.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: cdoan02]
#4578116
09/18/13 08:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,119
target1911
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And if I recall, there were no open carry demonstrators in Colorado until AFTER they began enacting draconian firearm laws. Only after those passed did open carry rallies begin to pop up. The demonstrators organizing these rallies were an important part of 2 senators being removed. They are also the ones pushing to have the ridiculous laws removed.
Sitting quietly trying to please everyone led to Colorado enacting draconian laws; open carry rallies led to the removal of the senators responsible for pushing the laws into place. Time will tell whether they succeed in removing the laws.
But I'm sure all of the open carry haters here know better. Even though recent history has proven you absolutely wrong, I'm sure you know what's best. Gun rights supporters should tone it down and lay low, and just assume laying low won't lead to the same results as it has time and time again.
Isn't the definition of crazy to do the same thing, but expect a different result?
Again, I commend and appreciate the open carry demonstrators for having the courage and commitment to put yourselves on the line for what is right. I'm glad that you've learned from history, and realize sitting around quietly in the shadows will lead to the same thing it's led to everywhere else: civilian disarmament. Thank you for standing up for the rights of all Americans; even the ones that refuse to look at and learn from past events. Very well said.
"A good life is never too short" My Dad
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: cdoan02]
#4578442
09/18/13 01:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,069
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
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Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Navasot]
#4578489
09/18/13 02:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems news flash... the time has come.... people want your guns... they have not been able to take very many yet, but make no mistake, their are people out their that would love to see you disarmed.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#4578544
09/18/13 02:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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Wake up: Help is not coming, and neither is permission. – The Grey Enigma
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#4578625
09/18/13 02:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,341
ntxtrapper
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Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems news flash... the time has come.... people want your guns... they have not been able to take very many yet, but make no mistake, their are people out their that would love to see you disarmed. Yep and the OCD's (Open Carry Douchebags) are making it easy for them to do it.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#4578672
09/18/13 03:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,069
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,069 |
Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems news flash... the time has come.... people want your guns... they have not been able to take very many yet, but make no mistake, their are people out their that would love to see you disarmed. Yes I understand this.. but me going into the public knowing im about to cause trouble isn't going to help my case now is it.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#4578684
09/18/13 03:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems news flash... the time has come.... people want your guns... they have not been able to take very many yet, but make no mistake, their are people out their that would love to see you disarmed. Yep and the OCD's (Open Carry Douchebags) are making it easy for them to do it. Oh, so the OCD's, as you call them, did NOT organize a recall vote in Colorado? No need to go with facts, eh? Your emotional opinion certainly trumps all facts. Then again, aren't you one of those "I support gun rights as long as everyone does it the way I feel it needs to be done, but if you do it different than me you're a dumbass" types?
Last edited by cdoan02; 09/18/13 03:07 PM.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Navasot]
#4578688
09/18/13 03:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,155
cdoan02
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Id rather just live my life with my guns like I always have...never carried one around in public but do in my truck and im not against anyone that does... IF the time ever comes that someone wants to take my guns then I will put my rights to use for the exact reason we have them...gun in hand.
People doing things like this are wanting one thing... attention. and with todays media it will only cause nothing but problems news flash... the time has come.... people want your guns... they have not been able to take very many yet, but make no mistake, their are people out their that would love to see you disarmed. Yes I understand this.. but me going into the public knowing im about to cause trouble isn't going to help my case now is it. Worked in Colorado. I'm no genius, but I'd rather support what has proven to work, as opposed to supporting what is proven to fail.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: cdoan02]
#4578775
09/18/13 03:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 28,069
Navasot
Hollywood
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Hollywood
Joined: Sep 2011
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: Navasot]
#4578943
09/18/13 04:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,341
ntxtrapper
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Today Starbucks has told the OCD's to stay away too. Just a sample of what is to come if people don't use common sense when carrying a firearm in public.
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Re: Men Legally Carrying Firearms Arrested at Texas Capitol 9/13/2013 – Troopers Not Aware of Gun Law Exemption (VIDEO)
[Re: cdoan02]
#4579451
09/18/13 07:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,341
ntxtrapper
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I can't even begin to address the lack of common sense in some of these posts...
But I will address one thing: How is arresting a law-abiding citizen on completely trumped up charges related to investigating whether an open carrier is a threat?
It's not. This very simple really. A bunch of wankers who thought they had a loophole in the penal code went to a public place with cap and ball revolvers in plain view. The Troopers who are tasked with keeping our elected officials safe, determined that there was probable cause to arrest the actors for disorderly conduct. The wankers should have done some more research about the "deadly weapon" aspect of the offense before they ruined thier lives. That is all, and I must say I am pleased with the outcome. I love the idea of every citizen who can legally carry a concealed handgun doing so, but the OCD folks are nerds who need to realize they are screwing it up for everyone else.
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