I have been hunting for around 24 yrs and i have been lucky to have hunted in a lot of counties and have scene that this can go both ways as stated by others !!! If there is a chance that a spike that is on his first set of horns and is only 3 or 4 '' tall and has good mass and not all messed up to me i would rather wait and see what happens..... but it's hard to keep an eye on them and track them if your not high fenced ( IMO )
Also take in account that a spike might be one that is going to bread many does at all because it will most like be rejected by the doe or ran off by other bigger bucks .Just my .02!

It takes away from the genetic argument, IMO. Ppl who never feed protein should have smaller deer than those who do.....

Nope it just shows that feed is not the issue. Shows that even on low quality habitat or drought years that better genetics should outshine the poorer genetics.

Your last paragraph is my point.

20years is a life time for most hunters.

We tried the spike harvest for 8 years(shooting 4-5 yearling spike/3pt to every .5 mature bucks).. all We did was elimate our buck herd. We switched to age only harvest and we broke the consistant 160. Fruits of those age restriction are really showing off 8-9years later with higher numbers of mature bucks.

With our lower densities we could really watch the history of our bucks. Spikes, 3pt 8pts etc.


Instead of hunting and seeing 1 mature 5.5 year old buck per 1000 acres we are seeing 3-5 5.5 year old bucks and hunting 1-4 6.5 year old bucks

Our deer have always exploded at 5.5 with many taking 20" jumps. Very rarely dId we ever see a deer not break 140 at 6.5.

Our success wasnt based off soley the stopping of spike harvest, our success was based up switching to higher whitetail value ag crops, and allowing bucks to actually mature/express their gene, and structuring the doe to buck ratio

What would those results have been if you kept harvesting spikes and you still did all this?

The average lease in Texas is less than a thousand acres. You can't control genetics, diet, water or disease on a low fence plot that small. Deer range over miles, not acres. The deer are moving about according to a variety of pressures and there are few residents on any single lease. So management efforts have to be on a county and state level. We pay TP&W to do that. I'm confident using their guidelines. I'm gonna try to keep a few deer near my lease during hunting season with a feeder and other amendments. And I hope to shoot one spike, one trophy buck and at least 2 does yearly. By obeying and following TP&W rules and suggestions, I think the deer population will continue to be strong. Those high fence places are on their own.

Still have a lot less mature bucks.

Spike numbers are still about as consitant as they were before.

Biggest reason we stop shooting spikes was year after year the numbers weren't changing.

If we hadn't changed our ag crops I bet our deer wouldn't have that big of jump at 5.5-6.5 year mark.

We are also holding more mature bucks with it in the fall/winter. Those that's summer home range don't include our property

what is the reason for this?

Study period is over and they have no need for those bucks nor do they have room in their pens for that many deer.

The unknown variables that could contribute to a yearling being a spike is the sole reason I never have and never will shoot one.

But wouldn't those same unknown variables still come into play on the rest of they yearling bucks that grew forked antlers?

That wasn't in the protein graph they were selling....

But it was what they were selling when I was a seminar where they explained it in full.

IMO, most cases of spike yearlings are caused by environmental conditions, not genetics. I hear hunters speak of having numerous spikes one year and very few the next, or vice versa, on the same property. This cannot be attributed to genetics.

I tend to agree with this. Body condition/age of the mother, how early the buck fawn was weened, and forage availability probably play just as much as a role as genetics in a first year buck being a spike vs. being a forky. I wouldn't specifically target them until I had met all other harvest goals for the year and still neeeded to remove some deer.

Maybe, maybe not. A few questions. Was it born in May or was is born in late August? Was it the smallest in a set of tripletts? Did the doe die before it was fully weaned? What was the milk guality/production of the doe? I don't know the answer to these questions and they all play a huge role and could contribute to a yearling buck being a spike.

If they did them they wouldn't be unknown...bucks from twins, later born, later to wean, from a less dominant doe, etc....

The issue has been beat to death on these forums, with the QDM worshipers saying the TPWD study is totally incorrect, and others like me who decide for themselves. I find merit in it myself through my own observations since AR's were first introduced in East Texas several years ago.

While I firmly believe in the need to harvest doe, I have seen nothing that has hurt our sport more than the QDMA's war on antlerless deer.

IMO, the TPWD department did us a tremendous favor by uncovering a method to remove inferior bucks sooner rather than later. But of course, the QDM flock with their "let every spike walk" mentality would have no part of it.

You should have asked for your $ back.. bc it also would include a buck pulled back during its first set of antlers....you can't pull back up what you shoot....

You know what I got out of this post? About 99% of the members here claim to be meat hunters. Not only do they claim not to be trophy hunters, they marginalize them. Then all of a sudden everybody is an expert deer herd manager for trophy racks. If deer hunting has become this much work, maybe you ought to find another hobby. Or become a deer breeder and let your obsession become your vocation.

When it was born is not the question to ask since deer born along the gulf coast in April are still spikes and deer born in August in deep South Texas can still be 8 point yearlings. The answer is genetics not age. The same applies to nutrition to the buck, the fawn and the doe. If the doe had triplets and a doe had one fawn and the triplets all grew into 6 point or better yearlings and the one single fawn grew into a spike? Was it genetics or nutrition(if nutrition was the same for both does and fawns that year)? What if that smallest set of the triplets had 10 points and his brothers all had 6? Was it genetics or nutrition? If nutrition in drought years is the answer then why do herds that have lots of spikes still have lots of forked antler yearlings?
What you are doing shooting spikes is playing the percentages. Fewer spikes will become better deer than forked antler offspring will be. You need to read the report or go up to Kerr and sit thru a seminar.(they are free)

But if that buck pulled back on his first set of antlers was standing next to another buck with forked antlers his first set of antlers was it drought or genetics that effected them both? I have never questioned a shot I made on a buck, you are playing the percentages when you pull the trigger. IMO if you have to question really hard to keep or cull then you already now the answer.

This topic always makes for an interesting discussion. No one is right and no one is wrong. You do what works best for you and I do what works best for me and we are both successful in producing quality deer while employing different techniques.

Of course this is your opinion you know nothing of QDM nor the rest of the states deer herds. On top of that you flip between being a meat hunter and then try to agrue TDM which doesn't make a ton of sense.

Ironically your support TWPD's QDM approach with supporting age structure, yet dive right in and embrace their TDM spike harvest. How can you blame QDM when you agree with them?

For the 500x QDM is not TDM. It is simply managing for the up most health and age structure of your herd. QDM is Protecting young bucks and the quest of an under CC and balanced Ratio herd.

You think you are ready and have the resources to implement a TDM plan? Hardly, not even close, hell only part of a TDM plan you know is spike harvest for the reason of Genetics...which makes zero sense if you don't have resources or time to implement it fully.

Your exactly what's wrong with the entire TPWD idea on blanket Management. You want to go straight for your buck tags, with zero regaurd for anything else.



As far as QDMA as a company, I no longer support them as a business do to their disregard for property owner rights in their political addresses.

QDM is a stepping stone into TDM. Having a balanced herd, that's under CC allows you to then Implement a TDM plan. Very few people have the ability or stomach to go full throttle into a true TDM plan from the start.