Well if you look at a 10ga 3.5" vs a 12ga 3.5" they normally have the same amount of shot in them and often times the 12ga will have higher speeds. Pattern would be the advantage out of a 10ga but then again if you shoot good loads with the right choke out of a 12 you should have great patterns there too.

If you patterned and choked a 2 3/4" or 3" shell you would get those same results at those 50 or 60 yard ranges you were talking about. The problem isnt distance it's pattern density...in % ratio the 3.5" isnt any more dense but the fact that there are more pellets means there is greater density in the first place so it will still have enough pellets in those ranges to make it leathal. But distance has to do with speed so you could have a short shell shoot just as long as a 3.5" shell.

That's neat about the 4" 10ga shells...I've never heard of that.

Do you not understand what I was saying? If not I can try to explain it again. You at least understand that the size of the shell has nothing to do with distance right?

There are so many factors in shell design that effect it's performance other than length. Type of wad, fast to slow burning powder, amount of powder, shot size, payload, primer, and probably some things I have not thought of. I have a two or three year old link saved that I always thought was fascinating. Y'all should check it out.
http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/magazine/2005_01/01_shooting.php
http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/magazine/2005_01/shooting_DB.html

No matter what the machanics are, with a 3.5" shell you have greater effective ranges than with a 2 3/4" or 3" shell. I think that is what I was saying in my original post.

We shot a 3.5 BB the other day for fun, man they kick harder!

So you are telling me with a factory 2 3/4" shell you can effectivly kill targets at the same distance you can with a 3.5" shell. Yes or No?

depending on the FPS...yes

YES, if you notice the FPS on a 3.5 may be FASTER than a 3" with the same amount of shot, that is only because there may be more powder in the 3.5. But if you compare a 3" with 1 3/8 oz of shot may be 1350, a 3.5 shell that has the same FPS may have 1 9/16 oz of shot.

Now if you arent really confused, I know I am.

OK I know that my 3.5" shell at 50yds will give me a 13 to 15 pellet count, consistantly, on a turkey head silloute with #4 shot. So if I can find a 2 3/4" shell that has the same velocity I will get the same count at that distance, I find that hard to believe. My 3.5" shell holds 2 oz to 2 1/4oz depending on brand of shell, I don't think that there is a 2 3/4" shell that can come close to that and keep up with the velocity.

Jed

the argument is NOT that the 3.5 doesn hold more pellets. It is that a 3.5 had no greater "knock down" at a given yardage if the FPS at the muzzle is the same.

PLUS, I bet if you take that 13 to 15 pelet count and convert that to a percenatge of the pellets n your 3.5 shell, you WOULD get a similar percentage from your 2 3/4 shell.

You did misunderstand my post. Yes...a 3.5" shell will hold more shot...but that doesnt mean it will go farther. But you are right in that since there are more pellets flying in the air more will probably hit the target...there is more room for error. So a 3.5" with a lower percent of pellets hitting a target might still be more total pellets hitting than a 2 3/4" shell with a higher percent. So broken down real easy you might be able to hit a target with a bb gun and if you do that's 100% pellets on target since its just one pellet. That same target with a 3.5" shell might only have a 10% rate but might have 15 pellets...therefore making it more deadly.

I guess my only point was as a reply to your post way up there about how you can hit stuff farther away with a 3.5" vs say a 2 3/4" was that if you get the right load and choke combo you can be just as deadly at those ranges with smaller loads. Also that the speed (FPS) of the load is the main factor that determines leathal energy for each pellet (assuming the same pellet type).

i just finished an article in D U jan/feb 2006 page 28.talking about the perfect pattern,square loads,dialing in a perfect pattern by using the right choke with the right load it also says that most people over choke thier guns when using steel shot.which made sense to me since the barrel can only release a certain amount of shot no matter how much you put in there,hence if you have a 2 3/4 shell with 1 1/16oz and a mod. choke that may fill the barrel near perfect but if you use a 3.5 with a 1 3/8 shot mod.choke that may crowd the barrel and cause deflection in the barrel and an imperfect pattern but logicly it would seem that the pattern would have pellets following pellets ..i dont know im not a scientist.but in my little brain it sounds good..for the record my nova shoots 3.5 but all i use are 3in #4,s dont change something that works

OK I missed the % part. % wise your are right but success rate and pellet count not % the 3.5 will be better therefore it adds more success at greater distances.

I think that everyone is right, we are just arguing differnt points.