There`s also a lot of bad info in this thread...
YOU BE THE JUDGE

Get the cash, hand over the gun

You are not required to "check out" the buyer

I might let you see my name on my license or CHL but you aren't getting any info off of it.

Lighten up Nancy, you're raising your blood pressure. Hahahahahahaha.

I agree. I'm a rational guy. I trust my thinker.

If the guy feels shady then scratch the deal. I cut a deal with a guy today on an awesome 30-06 browning because he was super short with every reply and needed me to look up the address to bass pro. He said he was available all day then I tried to set a time and he decided he was on his way back from Abilene and it would be late. Nah pass on that.

Use your gut. Work out all the details beforehand. You can't tell if the guy is a felon or not. Fill out a bill of sale. It is the buyers responsibility to ensure that they comply with any applicable laws when they sign that they take that responsibility.

I try to only deal with people on here if I can help it. Easy to verfiy a good reputation. Be very careful on arms list and Texas gun trader. Make sure you know the signs of a crook.

Meet public at a firearms friendly business, during business hours, during the day. Always pack you're cc weapon and if something feels wrong call it off. That FN scar for 1200 bucks is a scam every time.

I always talk to people on the phone prior to meeting as well. I can tell a lot about a person by the way they talk, and converse.

Not to thread jack, and it's really on topic, but what are the signs of a crook. I've seen people say there are a lot of specifics to look out for. That's funny about the 1200 dollar scar

Here are few things I do when buying or selling guns:

Do the deal during daylight hours so you can inspect the gun thoroughly

Don't allow anyone to write down your DL# on the bill if sale because you've given them a critical piece of personal information. I'm always willing to show my DL or CHL sign a Bill of Sale, but don't allow people to write down the numbers. Not that anyone on here would do anything inappropriate with the information, but you never know who may get their hands on the information. With your DOB and DL, crooks can do a whole lot of damage. You can always go to a FFL and do a transfer.

I'm always happy to show my CHL, and expect the same in return. However, me copying your info and vice versa ain't gonna happen.

The misinformation given in these types of threads gets real old real quick... You or someone like you post that crap and then someone reads it never to return, and take what you said as fact.

Then I try to buy a gun from someone and he wants me to jump through imaginary hoops because a mis informed puppet or someone like you said they "had to" do...

It gets real old when you ask for someone to ship a long gun or rifle and they say its a felony, or that I need to provide them with My DL, Recent check stub, Fingerprints, or they cant ship a reciever, or they can ship it if the barrel and stock are in one box, another box holds the fasteners, and the other box holds the rest along with a signed paper where they recited the pledge backwards and signed there name in print with a purple pen.... yada yada yada.

Facts are mis guided people who dont know spreading this type of garbage as fact is what allows for this crap to continue.

Same types of people get all up in arms when the government tries to expand gun laws... but these people dont even truly know what the gun laws are. What you have told this guy to do is the EXACT thing the SENATE SHOT DOWN in the past couple of weeks... EXPANDING BACKGROUND CHECKS, addind to the paperwork for private sales, and everyone cheered... why on earth would you WILLINGLY enter into that?

If knowing the law makes me a "bad [censored]" and calling you out on your misinformation makes me a "nancy" then so be it. But you can take your smart azz comments along with your misinformation and shove em... as thats all it is. BS.

Agree with Coach 100%. So to recap:
1. No paperwork is required for FTF transactions
2. No FFL involvement if firearm is shipped withing the same state residents.
With only one addition/exception: seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GC.

Yes, that is correct. However, it's in the seller's best interest to get as much information from the buyer, and it's in the seller's best interest to use an FFL when shipping to someone they don't know.

Let's make this real simple.

1. If you sell a gun, and you're the original owner of said gun, you're a complete idiot if you do not get the buyers information.

2. If you ship a firearm to someone you do not know, without using an FFL, you're a complete idiot as well.

I thought you could only ship a rifle or shotgun to the door legally? (Handguns excluded)

I've never done it, but it seems nowwe're discussing what you can do while shipping, instead of what we should do for FTF

I think everybody is making some valid points. But I still don’t have a final opinion on the matter.

Let me try to summarize this topic and my understanding so far:

The Law:
I understand that by law, I don’t need to do a bill of sales for a FTF and I don’t need to ship to an FLL it’s shipped to Texas.
I think everybody is in agreement with the above.

FTF with no bills of sale Vs shipping directly to the person in TX:

If my gun is used in a crime, I think shipping the rifle would be better than a FTF with no bill of sale, as I will have at least a name , an address and the proof of the shipment.

On the other hand, if I ship directly to the person, I will have no way of knowing if the person is a Tx resident and is old enough to own a gun.
If something goes wrong (something as simple as the parents of the buyer that would sue me because I sold the gun to their 17 years old son), could I get in big trouble because I didn’t took enough precautions to sell the gun?


My initial thoughts:
The law says “The seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons”. I’m not a lawyer, but this phrase seems open to interpretation and this is why, I suppose, some guys recommend a bill of sales for a FTF and an FFL for shipment to mitigate any associate risks with the interpretation of the law.

I don’t like going through an FFL when I buy a gun. The last couple of times, it took me 1 day to clear the background check and it’s time consuming. So I would like to avoid the FFL. But at the same time I want to make sure I don’t take big risks.

The Op decided he was going to ship the long gun:



As for shipping handguns:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

So yes you can ship a handgun to the door of another resident of your same state. You must use a "common or contract carrier" ie Fed ex, UPS... The United States Postal Service (USPS) is a NO GO in this instance. But Fed ex, UPS... Will.

Again NO FFL REQUIRED, NO Extraneous Paperwork required... Unless you are "a complete idiot" then by all means make it harder on yourself

You're way over-thinking the situation.

If you have this much concern, perhaps you should trust in a licensed dealer to do the transfer for you at a cost of $25-50.

I don't go to the Internet for legal advice.

I sold a rifle on the forum that was shipped to another Texas resident. My requirement was to have a copy of his drivers license and would only ship to the person/address on the drivers license with signature required. It was a forum regular in good standing. ATF called me some time later doing a reverse trace related to a criminal investigation. Some of the comments from the ATF made me suspect they were investigating someone for unlicensed dealing, but they would not directly tell me. The buyer was a regular in the trading post with several gun transactions, but has never posted again. ATF at first was a little confused because they thought I had an FFL and wanted to see my bound book, but my license had expired long before that transaction. Still I was able to provide a drivers license number of the buyer since I had placed the license copy and record of the transaction in my file. They thanked me for obtaining it, commented how nice that was because most people don't. This of course took me out of the loop. Whatever it was about I sure did not want the buck to end with me. My opinion is that if we don't police ourselves a little, events will lead to laws that will do it for us in ways we will not like. I still have no problem shipping a firearm to another forum regular in Texas, but only with a statement and copy of drivers license as before. I actually would prefer it over anonomous FTF meetings in a parking lot.

If you dont know, you dont know. Theres no risk involved as the seller. If this person turns out to be someone you arent supposed to sell to all you say is "I didnt know or have reasonable cause to believe"... your protected under the law as its written:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

However I now feel you ARE NOT over thinking this.... If this is your first time selling a firearm I hope you are learning from it... It's good to ask questions.

However, Simply all you need to do is box the dang gun up, slap his address on it, take it to the post office and walk out.

Done deal.

What are you trying to ship anyway? for 100 bucks less than your asking price I guarantee I will never use it in a crime. 100 bucks is little to pay for peace of mind!

I agree with Coach 100%. I hate it when I find a gun I want, but it is Houston or somewhere far off and the seller won't ship even after I've pointed it with quotes from the ATF site. Misinformation kills a lot of deals. If you are that worried about it though, just ask them to shoot you a copy of their driver’s license in an email or even take a pic with their phone and send to you. That way you at least know they are of legal age to own it. That way it would be same as a FTF deal really. Its not like you are going to do a back ground check on someone in the Wal-Mart parking lot, they don't expect you to do it for mail sales either.

I have a feeling this process is about to get changed, earlier or later it will happen.

I'm going to get flamed here, but post count helps.
I never ever had a problem with any THF transactions.

Be it F2F or through the mail, not one bad apple.

I disagree.
It’s my first time selling a gun and I’m seeking advice from the forum members who have done this many times. Not to mention guys like “Coach W” who copy paste the actual regulations from ATF. I think I’m smart enough to make my own opinion based on factual data and people’s actual experience.




I’m selling a Colt 6920.

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...DE_#Post4243827

If it was a 22lr I wouldn’t care as much. This is why I’m taking some extra precautions as I would hate to have the name Colt associated with the next mass shooting. What happened to Bushmaster was pretty bad, if it’s Colt it’s even worst.

At this point I think I know what I need to do:
- Will ship to the buyer in Tx, but will require a scan of the DL and will only ship to that name and address
- For FTF, I’ll ask the buyer to fill the bill of sales only by his name (no DL number nor address), and I will only double chek that the name on the DL is matching the bill of sales.

I think it absolutely matters on post count. I know I don't want to ship a gun to someone with 102 post on a site that makes you get 100 post just to post in classifieds. Something fishy there. Especially if you look at the posters post and all they did was spam the photos section saying "cool" "neat". I've been a member here for a long time, and have a lot of post not as many as a lot of people, but more than I think I should. I've built holsters for a ton of THF'ers and with the majority of them trusting me with their guns over night or longer. I do think most of it is misinformation though.


Sounds like a plan.

Why do think a low post count is an indication that something is fishy?
All of us started on this forum with 0 posts. I personally reply to an add on this site and purchased a rifle FTF a couple of years ago. At that time I had 0 posts.
So why not ship to person with low post count? You ask for a scan of his DL, and ship it to his address. If my understanding is correct of what was said in this topic, if the guy isn’t allowed to have guns, you can’t be blamed , because you didn’t know. Right?