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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: godfather]
#4089311
02/28/13 03:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,200
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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Wow, I never saw that one coming. Unfortunate.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: tth_40]
#4090366
02/28/13 11:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 840
10ring
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 840 |
These companies may be smarter than we think they are. Maybe they predict that more gun control laws are coming no matter what the public wants and they as manufacturing companies must position themselves "now" to survive the eminent bans and restrictions. Maybe they feel that the only way to remain viable and in business is to align themselves with military and LEO customers now, not after the public sales stop. Just a thought....
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: godfather]
#4091046
03/01/13 02:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,038
IronSpikeLabs
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,038 |
No kidding. I know quite a few folks who are very disappointed in them.
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: IronSpikeLabs]
#4091113
03/01/13 03:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,273
boonee
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,273 |
So what you are saying is LEOs and Military Personel in high cap ban states are BAD GUYS! They are not allowed the best equipment they can get to protect themselves, their familys, and the general public? WOW! OTTS will always give a price break to LEOs and military. OK, I have said my peace.
Avenger Firearms 214-577-5818 avengerfirearms@gmail.com
Lifetime NRA member
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: boonee]
#4091307
03/01/13 04:28 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,644
Chris/HOU
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,644 |
I don't think anyone is saying they are bad guys. The point is to prod the good guys among them to stand up and fight for our rights as US citizens. The left is unforgiving in their mission to disarm us yet we conservatives are fighting with pillows on our hands. I guess short term monetary gain is more important to some than preserving the freedoms so many have fought and died for. That's my .02
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: boonee]
#4091308
03/01/13 04:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 108
BPence
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 108 |
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: bigjoe8565]
#4091723
03/01/13 02:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 899
Walt Kowalski
Tracker
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Tracker
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Posts: 899 |
It's funny how Colorado doesn't want you to sell or own a 30 round magazine in their state, but are ok with them being manufactured there. Talk about being a hypocrite. Hit the nail square on the head there.
Get off my lawn. �The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it.� John Hay
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: IronSpikeLabs]
#4091776
03/01/13 02:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,200
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 14,200 |
No kidding. I know quite a few folks who are very disappointed in them. So do I, and that number seems to be growing. Lots of folks on FB and elsewhere are PI$$ED at them.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: tth_40]
#4091800
03/01/13 03:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
THF Celebrity
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I'm going to take a bit of an opposite stance here. Not trying to make anyone mad.
I do tend to think of the police has basically on my side. I think they need to be prepared as well as possible to address whatever situation they may find themselves in, and I think a 30 round pmag is much better suited for that than a ten rounder, especially when confronting criminals that do not care about laws in the first place.
In this case where magpul has decided to sell to LEO/Mil in ban states (but not to individuals), I think those critical of magpul have failed to miss the big picture. Magpul has opted to help LEO/Mil do their job as best as possible against crime - hardly a bad thing! The tragedy is not that Magpul is selling to them, but that Magpul CANNOT sell to individuals in ban states. Magpul is not the enemy as far as I see it, but the state gov's that have made restrictions on civilians is the root problem - which is entirely NOT magpul's fault.
I don't expect to win everyone over with this. But, think critically about it. The shame is not that Magpul has opted to do what they can in the fight against crime/criminals, but that Magpul cannot do more by selling to civilians as well in those states.
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4091824
03/01/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083
godfather
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,083 |
The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to make sure we the people are not out gunned by our government. Cops are civilians too, they should not get special treatment. They are not above the law..........
C 1/9
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: godfather]
#4092359
03/01/13 06:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
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The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to make sure we the people are not out gunned by our government. Cops are civilians too, they should not get special treatment. They are not above the law.......... I agree with you completely except that I am not sure I see it as special treatment. Why is it special treatment for cops who need good equipment just like everyone else, instead of poor treatment of everyone else? I guess my point is that the problem is not that they ARE selling to cops, but that the ARE NOT able to sell to everyone else (which is not MAgpul's fault). Said otherwise, which would you rather have - would you rather Magpul be able to sell to everyone or to no one? I'm sure you will answer "everyone", which highlights that the problem is not who they ARE selling to, but concerns who the CANNOT sell to by law.
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4092366
03/01/13 06:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
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Plus - come on, get real - how likely is it that any of us generally law abiding people are going to get gunned down by the government? Is it possible, yeah. Has it happened before, yeah (Germany, China, etc). Is it likely here - sorry, but hell no.
Don't take me as being on the wrong side, but Magpul is not the one at fault here.The problem lies with the laws that prohibit them from selling to the rest of the people in banned states.
Last edited by jdk1985; 03/01/13 06:54 PM.
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4092412
03/01/13 07:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,644
Chris/HOU
Pro Tracker
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,644 |
Plus - come on, get real - how likely is it that any of us generally law abiding people are going to get gunned down by the government? Is it possible, yeah. Has it happened before, yeah (Germany, China, etc). Is it likely here - sorry, but hell no.
Don't take me as being on the wrong side, but Magpul is not the one at fault here.The problem lies with the laws that prohibit them from selling to the rest of the people in banned states.
You live in Waco and think it could likely never happen here...ironic? Please inform the Native Americans as well. Maybe they were high on peyote and just imagined the US government disarming and slaughtering them. Those other places you mentioned thought it wouldn't happen to them either.
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4092425
03/01/13 07:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083
godfather
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,083 |
Don't take me as being on the wrong side, but Magpul is not the one at fault here.The problem lies with the laws that prohibit them from selling to the rest of the people in banned states. I agree the problem is with the laws but if We the People and the firearms industry don't stand up for our rights we have no chance of keeping them. Magpul is not taking a stand with me and people who think like me so I will not stand with them. Simple.
C 1/9
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: Chris/HOU]
#4092513
03/01/13 07:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 13,492 |
You live in Waco and think it could likely never happen here...ironic? .
Ha that is pretty ironic But, I didn't say it had never happened, I simply said it was unlikely, which it is.
Last edited by jdk1985; 03/01/13 07:56 PM.
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4092744
03/01/13 09:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,323
Big A
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 3,323 |
You live in Waco and think it could likely never happen here...ironic? .
Ha that is pretty ironic But, I didn't say it had never happened, I simply said it was unlikely, which it is. I hope you are right in saying it is unlikely to happen to us, however it seems like the unlikely is getting closer and closer with some of the bans and such going on seems like it is getting ready to start. I pray that this day will never come because it will not be good for anyone but I still think we should be prepared for it may just happen someday.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun"
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4092858
03/01/13 10:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 634
floresrsr
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 634 |
I'm going to take a bit of an opposite stance here. Not trying to make anyone mad.
I do tend to think of the police has basically on my side. I think they need to be prepared as well as possible to address whatever situation they may find themselves in, and I think a 30 round pmag is much better suited for that than a ten rounder, especially when confronting criminals that do not care about laws in the first place.
In this case where magpul has decided to sell to LEO/Mil in ban states (but not to individuals), I think those critical of magpul have failed to miss the big picture. Magpul has opted to help LEO/Mil do their job as best as possible against crime - hardly a bad thing! The tragedy is not that Magpul is selling to them, but that Magpul CANNOT sell to individuals in ban states. Magpul is not the enemy as far as I see it, but the state gov's that have made restrictions on civilians is the root problem - which is entirely NOT magpul's fault.
I don't expect to win everyone over with this. But, think critically about it. The shame is not that Magpul has opted to do what they can in the fight against crime/criminals, but that Magpul cannot do more by selling to civilians as well in those states.
I agree.
Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war. Ernest Hemingway
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4093011
03/01/13 10:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923
Mike W
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923 |
I'm going to take a bit of an opposite stance here. Not trying to make anyone mad.
I do tend to think of the police has basically on my side. I think they need to be prepared as well as possible to address whatever situation they may find themselves in, and I think a 30 round pmag is much better suited for that than a ten rounder, especially when confronting criminals that do not care about laws in the first place.
In this case where magpul has decided to sell to LEO/Mil in ban states (but not to individuals), I think those critical of magpul have failed to miss the big picture. Magpul has opted to help LEO/Mil do their job as best as possible against crime - hardly a bad thing! The tragedy is not that Magpul is selling to them, but that Magpul CANNOT sell to individuals in ban states. Magpul is not the enemy as far as I see it, but the state gov's that have made restrictions on civilians is the root problem - which is entirely NOT magpul's fault.
I don't expect to win everyone over with this. But, think critically about it. The shame is not that Magpul has opted to do what they can in the fight against crime/criminals, but that Magpul cannot do more by selling to civilians as well in those states.
The shame is using police to enforce unconstitutional laws. Were I still in law enforcement, I would have to respectfully decline. "Following orders" will never excuse anyone. The police are there to protect and serve, the people. And they swear an oath to protect the constitution. The right shall not be infringed.. period. I may not be right, but I prefer to err on the side of caution regarding this slippery slope.
This cannot be fixed at the voting booth.. Wake Up You Morons!
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: Sniper John]
#4093069
03/01/13 11:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,269
Grendel 6.5
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,269 |
I would love to see all those AR manufacturers in NY and CT, move thier facilites to more pro-gun states. Same with Magpul. Texas has a great opportunity right now to bring some tax dollars into the state. A lot of firearms related manufacturers are being effected in these states passing new laws. Even if they do not pass, it is a reflection of the direction of those states in the future. The benefit would not only be tax dollars, but if an struggling community in Texas were to invite these companies to their town, perhaps with tax breaks in the first few years and or selling them city owned land at a reduced cost to help offset the companies expense of moving, it would bring much needed jobs and associated new growth to those communities as well. Any texas politician or lawmaker not aggressively working on this RIGHT NOW is a fool IMHO. I absolutely agree with SniperJohn. Texas communities should capitalize on this now. Strike while the iron's hot as the old saying goes.... Down in Temple near Waco and Fort Hood they are romancing California businesses aggressively as all those soldiers getting out of the military every month provide a steady workforce and Texas' favorable regulations toward business and manufacturing. I think it's hilarious that working folks and businesses are leaving Kalifornia and leaving behind a bankrupt state for the tree huggers to enjoy...
I go to Bone Daddy's for the burgers....yeah, that's why.
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: Grendel 6.5]
#4093562
03/02/13 03:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273 |
What convinces you the tree huggers and anti gunners are staying in Kalifornica?? Why aren't they coming to Tx, many of them are coming home.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: Mike W]
#4093580
03/02/13 03:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,200
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,200 |
I'm going to take a bit of an opposite stance here. Not trying to make anyone mad.
I do tend to think of the police has basically on my side. I think they need to be prepared as well as possible to address whatever situation they may find themselves in, and I think a 30 round pmag is much better suited for that than a ten rounder, especially when confronting criminals that do not care about laws in the first place.
In this case where magpul has decided to sell to LEO/Mil in ban states (but not to individuals), I think those critical of magpul have failed to miss the big picture. Magpul has opted to help LEO/Mil do their job as best as possible against crime - hardly a bad thing! The tragedy is not that Magpul is selling to them, but that Magpul CANNOT sell to individuals in ban states. Magpul is not the enemy as far as I see it, but the state gov's that have made restrictions on civilians is the root problem - which is entirely NOT magpul's fault.
I don't expect to win everyone over with this. But, think critically about it. The shame is not that Magpul has opted to do what they can in the fight against crime/criminals, but that Magpul cannot do more by selling to civilians as well in those states.
The shame is using police to enforce unconstitutional laws. Were I still in law enforcement, I would have to respectfully decline. "Following orders" will never excuse anyone. The police are there to protect and serve, the people. And they swear an oath to protect the constitution. The right shall not be infringed.. period. I may not be right, but I prefer to err on the side of caution regarding this slippery slope. +1. I really am not so up on what some call "critical thinking", but in what I call the "big picture" realm Mike is right. There is no threading the needle. The Constitution is pretty straightforward on this. "We The People" is ALL citizens, regardless of employment.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: tth_40]
#4094079
03/02/13 01:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492 |
I think you are right tth (and Mike, if I understood correctly). It is ALL citizens.
BUT-
even then, we still have to decide what element to critique. Sure, we can criticize Magpul for selling to LEO/mil in ban states. But, thinking about the 'big picture,' wouldn't it be more worthwhile instead to refocus our efforts on criticizing the laws that hinder magpul (and others) from selling to ALL citizens... shouldn't we instead criticize the fact that ALL citizens should not have rights infringed?
Complaining about Magpul is essentially a complaint that LEO and MIL still have access to those items while other citizens do not. Instead, I think what we should really complain about and critique is the fact that everyone else (ALL citizens) does not.
Let me ask it this way - would you rather EVERYONE (LEO/mil/me and you) have access to the same items (my argument), or would you rather NO ONE have access to these items (the argument of those critical of Magpul)?
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: jdk1985]
#4094118
03/02/13 02:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083
godfather
Pro Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,083 |
It's the principle. Magpul made a big deal about the 2nd in Co but they still chase that dollar everywhere they can. That�s fine, it�s a free country and a free market. You keep buying from them and I�ll take my business elsewhere. I�ll buy from a company that is more than just a corporate entity, I�ll buy from a company that has principles.
C 1/9
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: godfather]
#4094204
03/02/13 03:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 634
floresrsr
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 634 |
Message from Richard Fitzpatrick, President, CEO-Founder, Magpul Industries.
"REGARDING LEO SALES March 1st, 2013 Back in 1990, when I was deployed in Desert Shield and Desert Storm as a Marine grunt, some companies prioritized me items for my M16 for shipping that I purchased with my own funds. After getting out and forming Magpul in 1999, I established the same priority policy for Military and Law Enforcement, due to the requirements of their profession. The same policy has been in place for 13 years now and has never been an issue until a few days ago. I do not support the idea that individual police officers should be punished for the actions of their elected officials. That said, I understand the concerns that some have with Law Enforcement officers getting special treatment while at the same time denouncing second amendment rights to another citizen in the same state.
With the fight in Colorado right now we do not have time to implement a new program, so I have suspended all LE sales to ban states until we can implement a system wherein any Law Enforcement Officer buying for duty use will have to promise to uphold their oath to the US Constitution - specifically the second and fourteenth amendments - as it applies to all citizens. Richard Fitzpatrick President/CEO - Founder Magpul Industries"
Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war. Ernest Hemingway
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Re: Colorado Mag Ban
[Re: floresrsr]
#4094225
03/02/13 03:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492
jdk1985
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 13,492 |
Instagram @justinkingwoodworking
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