I've got an Excel file almost finished on most of the short action, .308 bolt face, cartridges, twist rates and corresponding bullet weights. It includes velocity and energy from 100 to 1000 yds, and trajectory in Mils and MOA. I didn't know if it would be used so I stopped working on it.

Guess I'll get back to work on it.

We will possibly debate MV when it's done

Yeah, and when we finish that one we can argue about whether or not "energy" kills. Might as well argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Is there anything more pointless?

The MV from most is the mean MV according to Hodgdon. I have loads in there that are mine in red. They have been chronographed and confirmed to 1k.

I agree with that. I think a heavy arrow from a heavy bow that would be perfectly adequate for moose or bear would have about 40 foot pounds.

someone will come along and tell us arrows kill differently than bullets.

Well, I guess they kinda-sorta do - but the point is still to damage/destroy vital tissue and kinetic energy doesn't do that.

It's a balance boys. For hunting, it is just physics that a heavier bullet traveling at a sufficient velocity is better than a lighter bullet traveling at that same velocity.

But then everyone wants to talk about the smaller bullet at a higher velocity, better bullet construction, recoil, etc. All legitimate topics.

I have simply come down to wanting at least a 100 grain bullet for deer. Many will argue and that's fine. I just disagree, that's all. Any kid and certainly any adult can handle a .243. So why use anything smaller?

P.S. In every thread like this guys post the generic "place your shot and anything will kill deer." That's just a truism that really adds no substance to the discussion.

I agree somewhat about energy not being the most important part. My goal is to sling at least a 150gr projectile at a high enough speed for an acceptable trajectory without breaking my shoulder. Everyone's wants and needs are different.

Or maybe they smartened up? You really don't see any "long range" 30-06s. And I'm sure it's not for recoil. 300 wm, more of a long range gun then either of the guns were talking about. And I'm sure it kicks like a mule, 416 rigby, bigger bullet and at 300 yards, the same velocity as a 30-06. Some bullets are faster yes, and some are slower. But if the 416 rigby was such a good gun, then it would Be custom reloaded, and ammo wouldn't be $200 a box. How is the 30-06 better than the 300 wm? I still fail to see how the 30-06 is better than the 308.

I own an '06 and have put a few .308 rounds down range in the past. I can tell you I don't like shooting either one of them at the range. On an animal though I never feel the recoil. Now I shoot a .30RAR. With 150grain bullets running 2700fps and well under moa groups I get "mediocre" .30 caliber performance and, in the AR15 platform, very tolerable recoil. I'm not going to knock of insurgents at 700 yards or give a darn how big the hole is in a coyote hide is. It's proven to be a pig, coyote and deer killer when I do my part and mediocre in performance or not I'll take it over the '06 or .308 for my hunting lower 48 hunting needs.

You do realize in true lr class shooting the 308 is a thing of the past as well. The 06 pushes the exact same bullet faster there for it has a bit less drop and a slight less wind deflection thanks to that velocity advantage. With bullets like the 208gr Amax the 06 clearly has an advantage of being able to push it where the 308 marginally can. Does the 300WM outperform it sure but at the expense of up to 20gr more powder per load which equates to more recoil. I fail to see what the 416 Rigby has to do with either the 308 or 30-06.

How is the 06 better brother?

It just is.

Every time I pop a game animal at 400 yards with my $18 a box Winchester Powermax, I giggle like a school girl.

"it just is"

What if I said the 308 is better because

"it just is"

308 can do the same thing all day long brother

Opinions are nice but the facts prove the opposite.

Hmmm, 308 v 30-06 vs rifle. When I am selecting, I add the rifle. When I add the rifle type to the selection process it makes it simple



I have not ever shot a 30-06 semi auto that I liked as much as the 308 semi auto.

.30-06- jack of all trades, master of none. Top 3 "if you could only have one gun" list no doubt, but since Obama hasn't signed that executive order yet, I personally prefer the fast 30s, and then something lighter for whitetail.

They are essentially the same dang thing except the 30-06 has more case capacity and has a higher velocity. It shoots the SAME BULLET FASTER! Why can you not get that through your thick head?

I don't have anything against the 308, its all in fun.

For many years I shot the savage 30/06 for hunting and it did great but never felt comfortable past 250 yds. It served my hunting purpose though. When the hog hunting came into play I had a few issues with recovery shooting the 30/06.

When I got into my MSR I chose the 308 and love it as far as hunting goes its more compact , little recoil and I am comfortable shooting out to 400 yds.

I think it's like most people have said its all about the package and not so much the caliber. Now I am just a hunter not a tactical marksman most of my shooting is done in the field not the range. I am probably not qualified to argue accuracy and calibers.

I feel that the best package for an average guy is a 308 in an MSR platform.

This is the thread that will never die, and since it won't I will chime in...

If we suppose we are in the world were you only get one of things:

- If I can reload put be down for the case that holds he most powder. .308 vs 06 then the 06, 06 vs 300 winny, gimme the 300. There are lots of options for loading down, but you can only stuff one so full.

- If I can't reload put me down for the one I can get ammo for. Normally I would say .308, but in this time of madness I have seen more 30-06 on the shelves so who knows...

Thankfully we do not live in such a world, yet.

I have used both .308 and 30-06 for hunting and they are so near identical that it just does not matter at the ranges I hunt. In Texas they are both more than enough for anything, and will work on anything in this hemisphere, though neither would be my first choice for big bears & moose or rabbits & squirrels. If I were shopping for a rifle and found a great deal on a rifle of either cartridge I would go for it. If there was a great deal on rifles of both then I would grab the one that my gut said was best based on fit, trigger, finish, etc.. Or I'd get both - life is short, live it up.

Flip a

-ww

LOL. I agree with Wader. People arguing over near meaningless details.

The 30-06 can push the same bulet a little faster. The 308 usually runs in a snaller/handier package. There are a lot more semi's in 308 than 30-06.

Frankly, there probably isn't a hunter in Texas where the ballistic difference makes any real difference.

Now continue to argue.

Ok, wader nailed it, so I quit.