I'm getting in some good stories and pictures of animals taken with the A-max bullets. Here is a recent one with the 155 A-max on a good size pig. You might recognize him. It is showing the exit wound. I have been hunting with the 155 A-max for several years with great success. Post some pics if you have any also!

I shot a pig this weekend with a 162 it had a nasty entrance and exit, I'm pretty sure the entrance was so nasty thanks to the 30yrd shot. Sorry no pics though.

6.5 Grendel, 70 yard shots on each with the 123gr A-Max. small entrance hole on entrance no exit except on the tree

Pig that weighed about 70-80 lbs shot at 70 yards broadside in the shoulder as it was running through after shooting another one about the same size. Both shot in the shoulder and went about 10 to 15 yards.


Have no idea the internal damage, shot in the round bullseye as the 49lb yote was facing away, no entrance wound found and no exit however it died pretty quickly. You could say it died from a pain in the arse.


Mesquite tree that had the misfortune of being in the way of the same A-Max load at 314 yards when I shot over a yotes back. That is about 3.5 inches of mesquite tree penetrated.

I don't have any pics but the two doe I shot this year with the 208amax would tell you they really hurt and do a lot of damage...

I shot one doe w/an Amax from my 308 at about 60 yds thru the shoulders 3 yrs ago..put a hole that you could put a grapefruit in..and did a lot of add'l damage..and she ran about 50 yds into
the whitebrush and I had to trail her..and I went back to my Barnes Bullets...The Amax is a good target round and if I'd shot
her in the neck or head it wouldn't have mattered, but I didn't have much of a shot or time and figured she'd be DRT which she wasn't...I shoot paper or varmits with them because of costs..but
hunt w/Copper..DD

I've used the 110 VMax out of a 300BO on small pigs in the 60 to 80 pound range and had passthrus.
I thought it was because of the lack of speed in the 300BO to violently expand like a varmint round should.

I have had mixed results with 178 AMax. Good results with a buck and a doe but not so much with another buck. Not much of a blood trail. I have though about changing but I shoot more steel than animals.

I forgot about my doe I shot at 280 yards with a 208 A-max from my 300 Win Mag TRG 42 (see video below). I don't think this doe liked it very much. I have had great results with the A-max bullets used for hunting.

I also had a customer that shot a black bear ar 220 yards with a 208 A-max facing him. The bullet went in the front of the chest, clean through the bear, and they recovered the bullet under the skin in the very back of the bears rear ham. It was about 4 feet of penetration!

178 A-max .308 Win. 2720 fps MV

Coyote #1 stopped and sat down facing me at 180 yards, I put one just under his chin. It looked like someone flipped off the switch.



Just after that shot coyote # 2 came running back to see what that noise was and why his buddy was laying down. He stopped at 150 yards, mostly his rear end was facing me, but I managed to thread one behind his left front and it exited his right neck. Flipped the switch off again.



I drug coyote # 2 to coyote #1 and made lunch for the buzzards.



The next morning this guy walked out at 105 yards. He never stopped walking, but I managed to put one in his neck. Bang flop.





Hopefully I'll have some more pics after this weekend with a 140 gr. out of a .260 at 2800 fps. More coyotes, hogs, deer, I'm an equal opportunity hunter.

What is the technical difference in the a-max and the v-max? I have been shooting the vmax, and I am still on the fence. It is in my 6.8, only bc of availability. I could Google it but would rather hear first hand.

Vmax is varmint built for rapid expansion and the Amax is a target bullet built for the utmost in accuracy.

The V-max bullets have a thinner jacket to expand more. Most target type bullets have a thicker jacket to hold together better for the faster twist rates.

I've shot many animals with the A-max bullets, and they work very well and provide similar performance like an SST.

So does anyone have preference in the Amax the 155gr or the 168gr for game.
I have some 168gr loaded for my .308 but may switch to the 155gr.

Here is my wife with her 308 with 168 Amaxes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDlv2ODrVk8

How well would the 155 perform in a 308 when you hit a rib or shoulder??
Or on pig shoulders once the group scatters and I can't hit em in the ear/neck??

I'm curious as to why y'all don't want to try the 178's ?

My 308 AR likes them and I have a bunch on hand. Just haven't shot a deer or hog with them yet....

I like the higher velocity of the 155's and 168's over the heavier bullets. At .308 speeds I would think the heavies would not expand as well at the longer ranges but that is just an educated guess. I am shooting them out of a 20 inch barrel which is another speed factor.

If you get a 155 gr. bullet to leave the muzzle at 2800 fps it will not reatain as much percentage of it's muzzle velocity at 500 yds + as a 178 leaving the muzzle at 2700 fps. I'm not knocking you for using the 155, I was just curious as to why you do.

Run the numbers in jbmballistics. Their trajectory is always very, very close or right on the money. I would think the energy deliver factor would be correct as well.

im no pro on the subject but if indeed the amax has a thicker jacket it would be the first, all target bullets have thin jackets, its because of the precision needed to make target bullets, if it was a thick jacket it would be a good hunting bullet, but yet they say not for hunting.


A-MAX®

Designed by match shooters for match shooters. With an ultra-low drag tip, our A-Max match bullets feature an aerodynamic secant ogive that delivers flat trajectories with excellent uniformity and concentricity. Find out more...

Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
These bullets are not recommended for hunting.


its funny how some people kill with an a max but others need a accubond. sometimes i think nobody knows what the hell they are talking about except me, ive always said pick a boolit and put it where it counts, it dont make a darn difference which one.

"a thicker jacket it would be the first, all target bullets have thin jackets"

Berger had to thicken the jackets on their VLD line after finding that some bullets were not making it to the target in fast twist barrels needed to stabilize them.

the vld is a pixie dust bullet intended to disintegrate

but isnt it true that match bullets have thin jackets ?

Not sure about that. Berger might say otherwise



http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/line-and-designs/

he Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD design. The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3” before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue

15% percent weight retention is like using a jolly rancher for a bullet

FWIW Hornady's load manual says the Amax is good for up to medium size game animals, yet online they say it's not recommended for it. I personally hunt with Accubonds when it's possible, I like the fact that if need be I can break a shoulder and anchor the animal while the bullet stills goes on to all the vitals. Another huge advantage to me is the fact that they produce exit wounds which is a great advantage when hunting close to dense cover.

Well I used the 162gr Amax on a couple pigs tonight dropped the first at a touch over 150 and the second wasn't recovered due to a poor shot on a running animal but it did have a nasty trail leading into the brush. The pig that was recovered was a 100-110lb sow bullet hit just on the shoulder with no visible exit wound.

been using A max for several years now. The Whitetail in Texas don't know the difference. Might think twice about using it on a grizzly or a moose but ain't nothing in Texas it won't bring down.

shot a doe and two hogs in the past two days with a 208 amax... dead dead dead....

That is not correct. Most target/match bullets have a thicker jacket, to hold together and not blow up in flight with the faster speeds and tighter twist rates. Some target bullets keep about the same thickness as hunting bullets. Most have thicker jackets than their hunting counterpart bullet by the same mfg.

I am going to load up some 178 Amaxes for my 308 and give them a shot out to 1k and hunting 5 and under

then go argue with the manufacturers of match bullets, cause they all say not for hunting, go cut one in half and look at it
match bullets indeed have thinner jackets, hornady says a max is a rapid expander not intended for hunting, go tell them that they are liars and that it has a thicker jacket.
the only thing thats going to blow up bullets in flight are 22-250s and 220 swifts no 308 6.5 or 7mm is going to do that

only match bullet i had
52gr hpbt match on right
45gr hornet on left
clipped these with a pair of dykes notice how much the 52 gr deformed and you can see a slighter thicker jacket on the 45 gr hornet

go tell nosler match bullets are thicker

http://www.nosler.com/articles/2011/05/05/cartridge-components-part-iv-bullets/

Can you put a caliper on the jacket to measure?

trying to figure out how, i would have to get the lead out and i would have to cut it better

You need to use something besides dykes to cut with if you want to justify your point, they tend to bend and tear in order to cut.

yes i know but read the links i posted

You are referencing two companies that have government contracts that directly pertain to their match bullet lineup, saying they are acceptable for hunting will make them illegal under the Geneva convention.

I'm not arguing whether its good or bad, I have taken game with the Amax with no issue with terminal performance just like Noslers BT's that I used in the past. Are they the best option out there to me no but if bullet placement is minded they work just fine.

dude i kill everthing with a 45gr, i have no doubt a 150 plus grain amax will do it too.
were debating whether match ammo has a thin or thick jacket.
they have a thinner jacket and no bond to the core

and i dont see match ammo having anything to do with the geneva convention, that pertains to fmj's

It pertains greatly when it makes the use of HP ammo illegal but when it's Match HP it's ok since it has been deemed a Target bullet.

ya i dont think so, the law is hp bullets or expanding bullets nuthin in there about target bullets, i doubt target bullets are allowed if they expand

What do you think the snipers use?

have no idea
but it doesnt change the fact that target bullets are different and they do have thinner jackets

Dee, I'm curious, what do snipers use? Hard cold facts, not what some friend of a wanna be sniper says. Please designate what sniper in what battle. Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm ? Do snipers fell under different bullet rules than other soldiers, because I admit that I do not know.

I am curious that military shooters have matches and looking at the info Nosler puts out this seems rather credible to me.

Sierra MatchKing's in the 30 cal stuff as of right now it's the 178gr was the 168 gr for many years. The 5.56 type rifles run 77gr Sierra MK's or Nosler Custom Competition bullets depending on lot. They fall under the same rules as all soldiers do but since the bullets are labeled match they are allowed use of the HP design.

I'm not arguing the jacket thickness fact as I have no idea but I do know companies will reword info to keep government contracts.

& FWIW when i get done hunting this weekend I'll cut a few 30cal bullets I have 3 flavors of match bullets as well as some hunting types and I'll throw some pics up.

Well used the 162gr Amax this morning on a deer and was shocked at the size of the exit. Bullet went through the shoulder and came out just on the front side of the opposite shoulder.

Outstanding buck dee! And he didn't know he was hit with a "target" bullet.

To an earlier question: these are numbers 3 and 4 world record longest rifle kills. I've read the theory that the A-max is nothing more than a hollow point with a polymer tip stuck in it.


Corporal Rob Furlong

March 2002

2,430 m (2,657 yd)

McMillan Tac-50

Hornady A-MAX .50 (.50 BMG)

Canada

3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

War in Afghanistan

[10]



Master Corporal Arron Perry

March 2002

2,310 m (2,526 yd)

McMillan Tac-50

Hornady A-MAX .50 (.50 BMG)

Canada

3rd Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry

War in Afghanistan

Retired military...worked as an armorer and long range instructor many years. Also an avid hog hunter and worked hog control on 55,000 acres. The Amax is excellent. Taken many 100s of hogs out to 800+/- with it and it consistantly kills well. Second clarification...most target bullets have thinner jackets, some makers may be a little thicker I.e. Bergers are heavier jacketed. As a rule they are thinner, not bonded in any way to the jacket. The Geneva convention only states bullets that are "designed" to expand are illegal in war. The bullets in use today do appear to be "hollow points" but are not truly. The old sniper/match bullet was a Sierra 168 Matchking. The hollow point was an aid in manufacture and enabled better stabilization in flight. It had spiral angled cuts as well to keep the bullet rotating after it went subsonic. Todays 178 has a hollow tip as well but neither bullet were considered illegal under Geneva Convention or Hague Accords. From much experience I can say that none of the Sierra Matchkings are good for any animal bigger than a gopher...they blow up on hog skin or deer ribs. In the last three years ive shot over a thousand hogs with all sorts of arms and ammo. I've been given ammo/components by Black Hills, Sierra, and Speer to test as well. Hands down Hornady makes a great product, SST, Amax they're both excellent. If you don't reload buy the Superformance 308: its incredibly accurate and kills well. The
Sierra Gameking is excellent as well, its inexpensive and almost as accurate as the Matchking

105 yards.

140gr. A-max. I was a little forward on shot placement. Upon autopsy I jellied both lungs and ground up both atria. This is the exit wound, and that's lung tissue on her shoulder. Lots of blood on the ground and in her chest cavity.

In my experience, and only with 155's just under 3K fps, they are great but destructive until you get out past 100 yds or so. Pigs and deer nearer had entrance wounds like baseballs. The hydrostatic shock ruined both lungs and on occasion caused the heart to rupture. Very messy to clean, all dropped like struck by lightening. Stretched out past 200 and you couldn't tell between an A-Max, SST or BallisticTip.
Hornady puts out conflicting data on use of the A-Max, partially, I believe, because they aren't designed to expand. No scored or tapered jacket. The main purpose with the A-Max is accuracy. On that point they succeed.
The argument over OTM, open tipped match, bullets and jacket thickness is silly. These bullets are designed for ballistics not expansion. Once again, the jackets are not scored or tapered, and frequently OTM's bend on impact.

I shoot the 168 grain AMax. It does the job on any animal i shoot and is very accurate when punching paper at 500 yards. Don't let anyone tell you that the AMax can't be used on pigs.

Thanks for the info black horse I think your credentials and experience are what make this a very informative place to learn!

Thought I would add to the thread since I have used the Amax again.

Pig was shot at a little over 150yds bullet went in behind shoulder and broke the opposite shoulder.



Buck was hit at 204yds in the high shoulder and dropped where he stood.