This has been on here in the past, but with new members coming on, maybe it needs to be rehashed.

Which of the following, do you feel has had the most impact on the increase of hunting lease prices? single choice

Landowners (17%, 17 Votes)

Outfitters/Guides/Leasing Agents (24%, 24 Votes)

Hunters (57%, 56 Votes)

TP&W (1%, 1 Votes)

Total Votes: 98 Voting on this poll ends: 0 seconds ago

You forgot the economy. Landowners & such are just trying to make up the diffrence.

TP&W doesn't have anything to do with lease prices and Outfitters etc are a pretty small part in the overall scheme of things. So, in the remix, it's the hunters who are willing to pay the prices that encourage the landowners to charge more. Basic capitalism and a continuing upward spiral until there is nobody willing to pay whatever per acre or per gun. Gas and food prices may bring that about a whole lot quicker than when this was discussed last time. JMO

Sorry, George w. Bush is living proof that in any problem affecting the populace, including Natural Disasters, the goverment is to blame one way or another.

If you have not noticed, in the opast on this issue some people have blamed TP&W for letting things get out of hand and not trying to exercise some control over wehat is being charged for leases.

You are trying to avoid the issue by dealing in realities!

I am wanting to see what some folks actually think on this issue and where they place the blame.

Why does someone have to be blamed? Why can't the answer be: supply and demand? (Which is what the answer is, as long as we are in a free society)

I usually stay away from the hot debates, but I agree with the supply and demand. There may be fewer #'s of "hunters" in general, but I believe there are quite a few more people now that are as equally as Passionate as I am toward the sport.

Because if you have not been following some of the threads that have taken place over the past few months, and not just on this topic, everyone appears to be looking for some one or some place to lay blame.

I would tend to agree with the Supply and Demand concept, the problem is figuring out who created the demand.

The supply is a constant that increases and decreases annually according to what is taking place on those areas.

This ain't rocket science, just monitor the poll and see what is voted on.

who created the demand....simple....hunters wanting to hunt.....that sure ain't rocket science...

Ain't NO ONE to blame but the people that are willing to pay the amount of money to lease the land.....

TP&W can't control what a landowner charges to hunt their land.....who came up with that crap...



How can TP&W control it.....
The government due to government programs like FEMA, the Army Corp of Engineers and such.....well yes, there the gov't can have some control and influence......

your talking apples and oranges....

Bottom line, capitalism.

I place the blame on:
1. Texas Trophy hunters and their BS
2. I blame the internet
3. Lease Pimps that only do it for the money. some might be ok and do it right.
4. I blame Marketing at its finest
5. I blame myself for falling into the trap at times

Kent, quit reading more into the question than what is there.

In the past on this same issue, each group that is listed had its share of people placing blame on it.

I am simply wanting to see if that is still the attitude or if people have changed their minds on the situation.

That is all and not one thing more.

So far there have been 47 views, 12 votes and 11 replies, and if you will take time to notice that just like you in the most feared THF member thread, no one has voted for TP&W yet, so I guess everyone considers them ineffectual sort of like they did you on that thread.

But you have seen landowners get blamed and outfitters/guides/leasing agents get blamed in the past and I am trying to see if things are still that way.

Get down off your step ladder and piddle on someone else's parade runt.

supply and demand,and this has been going up and up every year for a long time. ranchers had to diversify to stay alive. and when they realized these little critters could fetch them good money if they had nice head gear they jumped on that horse and rode it for all it's worth. and it is not cheap or easy to maintain a ranch that has a big buck population or any population at all. for the most part i don't think the ranchers took advantage of the situation as much as they capitalized on the situation to save a lot of them from staying in the red year after year. now it has turned into big business and a lot of ranche's are purchased and turned into a game ranch. there is a lot of expense involved in this with bringing in new whitetail genetics,exotics,high fence,accomidations etc. so that's why a lot of these price's seem so high,but i would be hard pressed to think they are becoming millionaires from these venture's,unless it's when they sell the property.

IMHO...it basically comes down to a combination of land owners willing to charge an ever higher price and hunters willing to pay an ever higher price.

I don't quite know what Trophy Hunters has to do with it. Maybe that's better saved for a different thread or for a PM. I'd be curious to know the reason for the bias.

The supply of huntable land in the state is pretty much constant. If a landowner wants to charge $3.00 an acre or $300.00 an acre that's his perogative. What justifies him is that there are some out there who will pay it. If $300.00 an acre is too steep for folks you can pretty much bet the landowner will bring the price down until it is paletable for someone.

It's the landowner's land, he can lease it or not his choice. It's the hunters who are willing to meet his price that will egg him and the neighboring land owners on to keep raising prices.

BIL..how can the internet which is a communication system be blamed for the price of leases? Too me the internet can cut both directions. Just curious.

Yes, I realize that my statement about a constant increasing and decreasing is off the wall of China, but there is only a finite amount of land out there that can be leased up.

However, from one year to the next, some properties drop out of the system and other properties enter the system.

I guess what I was getting at when I said a constant, is that in any given year there is only "X" amount of land, whether it is leased or not that can be hunted, but the amount that can be or is leased varies somewhat from year to year.

Sorry for the odd ball way of putting things.

My point on tth is I bet until tth came along I bet you didnt give one rats butt about b@c score etc. When tth started to become the "thing" 10 or so years ago that is when pricing went up. It has its goods and bads.
anyway back to the topic

I think the list you put out is part of the topic as it pertains mostly to hunters but to an extent landowners. Under marketing I'd list gun/hunting literature and magazines and more than that the hunting TV shows for promulgating the idea your deer isn't any good and you aren't a good hunter unless the buck is close to or makes B & C. In my opinion that all drives the hunter to think he has to pay big bucks to get a lease that gives him a better chance to live the myth which then opens the door for landowners to keep going up on the price. Yeah, the landowners (some) spend alot, but for most I suspect it goes under investment.

How about getting an opinion from someone in the midst of what we are trying to rehash??

Some of you know by now that I'm in the hunting business. With some land to go along with the hunting business and an outfitter that totally handles all the agreed on proceeds. Key words being, "agreed on". I'm inclined to go with JJH's coment. There is no blame, period. Its just business as anywhere in the world. If you want to lay blame on something lay it on huge corporations that are willing to pay out the kazoo for for literally thousands of acres. When this occurs what transpires with the land owner is, "well if I can get this much for my land then I ought to be able to get more as time goes by".

Thats just one scenario. Another is when the land owner sits down with the outfitter to establish a price on the game that the ranch will be paid. Then on top of that is the outfitters expenses which some of you that was on the Boys Ranch Hog Hunt already know the cost of that lodge you stayed in. So, with that you have the ever present rise in operating cost as we are now experiencing. Feed, gasoline, food, neccessities, wages, equipment, and working dogs and we could go on forever. So, where does the "blame" lay?

If I remember correctly from when this was done last year, or whenever it was done, the figures then were almost exactly opposite of what they are now, if everyone that is voting is being honest with their votes.

In the past, landowners and outfitters/guides/leasing agents, received the majority of the blame, with hunters coming in at 3rd.place and TP&W getting a few votes, because some people actually did or do believe that TP&W should be doing something to limit how much a lease owner can charge to lease their property for hunting.

TP&W getting a few votes, because some people actually did or do believe that TP&W should be doing something to limit how much a lease owner can charge to lease their property for hunting.

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TP&WD has no hand or authority in what charges should or should not be on any private tract of land.

I don't remember exactly, but I remember comments about "greedy lanowners."

How, in all honesty, can you blame a landowner or an outfitter? They have overhead and costs too.

That's like saying if I sell deer corn at $ 9.30 a bag and someone comes in and offers me $ 10.00 for a bag I'm to blame for the price of corn going up.

the tth has been around a long time as well as the american trophy hunter club,and i would agree they effected the price of deer hunting in two way's. one they turned a lot of more people onto hunting,so that limits the opportunity's of land that is available to hunt. and two it got to be like anything else were ego is involved and mine is better than your's mentality,were people would pay top dollar to hunt the big muy grande. i've seen it first hand as well as many of you have. so now we have ranche's that demand top dollar for access to their big bucks. and as those price's went up and land changed hands it affected all the other hunting property's as well. but can you blame them, every other person that own's a company and has a premium product then they can ask for that premium price. This doesn't mean they will get what there asking but they will fetch top dollar either way. at the same time the other companie's that have a similiar product but at a fair price will sale out.

These are all my opinions and the way I think about what is going on. Until all the above I listed approx 10-12 years ago lease prices were very reasonable now at times it seems out of control. I honestly think prices are starting to level off because people are getting wiser to lease pimps, rules, etc.
I understand the business aspect of it for the landowner also.
Honestly I think I would rather have a hog and varmint lease than to have the pressures sometime of shooting a "big" deer. Its a whole lot funner.

Too many variances right now. Housing, oil, gas, cost of living ect. Like I have stated before there is money, but it aint the average Joe Hunter with it. My lease price with a property close to where I hunt use to be 1200 a year, and it was awesome, with mule deer wt, javis ect. Leasing now goes for 2000 a gun, and does not have all the liberal taking of game. I am almost sure that the place I am on, will go to leasing. The price will be at least 2000, if not more, and that is with the leasee feeding. There will always be someone willingly to pay whatever the price will be, more so a corporation. I can only assume it will get worse before it gets better.