Let's try this a different way. Has anyone reading this ever received a ticket for piling birds up? If so what was the arrest title written on the ticket?

Before yall get all half cocked let me explain arrest title. It is the actual description of the violation.

its not even in the federal hunting laws. this is the closest i could find:

Custody of birds of another No person shall receive or have in custody any migratory game birds belonging
to another person unless such birds are properly tagged.

I suppose technically, if you shoot a bird, and my dog retrieves it to me, i am in custudy of your bird, therefore breaking the law.

HOWEVER, if we are all standing next to a tailgate full of birds, I am NOT in custody of your birds.

http://www.ct.gov/dep/lib/dep/hunting_trapping/pdf_files/fedmbhuntregs.pdf

But who would be in custody of those birds? It would be the owner of the truck.

Also found this:


§ 20.25 Wanton waste of migratory game birds.

"No person shall kill or cripple any migratory game bird pursuant to this part without making a reasonable effort to retrieve the bird, and retain it in his actual custody, at the place where taken or between that place and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility."

It reads that you must retain it in YOUR custody.

..until you get to your vehicle, or means of land transportation.

and no, the owner of the truck would not be in custody, not if you are standing there with him.

Yes until you get in your vehicle. If you are taking a picture in a buddy's truck then they are in his custody unless otherwise separated or designated who shot what. If you are standing next to him how have you designated which are in your custody and which are in his custody?

Check out the Hey BOBO thread for more information. Looks like a guide got popped with a $3500 ticket for not having them separated while en route to the cleaning station, while all hunters were in his truck with him. He got the ticket - his truck and nothing was separated/designated as to who shot what.

I would also like to know which law was cited on the ticket. I still think it would be Wanton Waste that I posted above.

There are no Game Wardens on here that can clear this up once and for all?

5 pages already...

before this goes any further, i would like to state a disclaimer: I am in no way tring to start an arguement, or troll, or discredit anyones opinions. I am merely trying to get the facts.

everything everyone has posted has been up for interpretation. Its much like the millet debate. If you read into it too much, you may think hunting over millet is illegal, but its not.

And the way i understand the laws here, a warden can ask you to seperate your birds, and you must be able to do so, but you can not get cited for having them together.

if the guide got a 3500 ticket, do we know if he paid the ticket? or did he take it to court and get it thrown out? just because you get written up for something doesnt mean you are in violation.

if you pull up to a ramp and one person is found to not have a plug in his gun, that person gets the ticket, not the person driving the boat, even if all the guns are piled together.

I am not trolling or trying to pick a fight either. I just wanted to read the law myself. I have yet to see it posted. If it is law then great we should adhere to the law. If it is not then I'd like to clear it up.

The wanton waste does not apply here. I can understand if I piled 4 limits in my truck and drove off, being in sole possession of 4 limits. You got me! But if they are piles on the shelf in the blind, or tailgate I just can't see that being a violation of law. At this point I believe I would have to take the court route and let a jury of my peers decide.

Possession by law is defined by care, control and custody. That is why when 4 people are driving down the road and there is a pound of weed under the seat, everybody in that car goes to jail. They were all in possession by the eye of the law.

So if the birds are sitting right there in a pile and GW says "how can I tell who shot what"? My answer will be, "Just ask".

Anyhow this has gotton too whacked out for me. Just remember, if you read it on the internet then by God it has to be true.

Field Possession Limit No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.

Tagging requirement No person shall put or leave any migratory game birds at any place (other than at his personal abode), or in the custody of another person for picking, cleaning, processing, shipping, transportation, or storage (including temporary storage), or for the purpose of having taxidermy services performed, unless such birds have a tag attached, signed by the hunter, stating his address, the total number and species of birds, and the date such birds were killed. Migratory game birds being transported in any vehicle as the personal baggage of the possessor shall not be considered as being in storage or temporary storage.


This is from the Federal Regulations (State of Kansas but still Federal):

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Migratory-Birds/Federal-Migratory-Bird-Regulations

If they are in your truck they are in your custody, if they are not tagged then you have issues...

I believe we are talking about different things Nathan. I can see if I carry more than one limit in my truck and get stopped, your reference applies. What we are diggin at, painfully I might add, is sitting in the blind or tailgate with a pile of birds and all shooters are present.

They are still in care, control and custody of the birds they shot. This has nothing to do with transporting the birds. I just wanted to read the regulations myself.

Nope. Not if the person who shot them is with me. This only applies if the person is not present.

All of your belongings do not belong to me just cause they are in my truck.

I don't think so, if they are in a vehicle that vehicle does not need to be moving for the law to apply. If they are in the vehicle the owner of the vehicle is in control and therefore has custody. If they are tagged that is a different issue, but if not then the issue stands.

They only have to be tagged if they are not in your possession. If the ducks are in the pickup truck and you are riding in that pickup truck, the ducks are in your possession.


I think this is a very gray area, I don't see anywhere where its stated explicitly.

The closest is the Wanton Waste that says you must have your birds in your custody. But what is the definition of custody? Is it the same as possession? If the birds are in a pile in a blind, the birds would be in the custody of all of the hunters. I don't believe at any period your ducks were out of your custody.

Lets say you're hunting from the bank with no dog and 4 ducks right by your bucket and down a fifth bird. Do you pick up the 4 ducks next to you and take them with you as you go chase down that 5th bird? What if its crippled and swims 100 yards away, do you haul those 4 birds with you every time you step out of the blind? What if the coffee hits you and you step out of the blind and walk 50 yards away to use the restroom, do you take your birds with you?

Have you ever watched COPS, if it is in your vehicle you are responsible for it, weather it is a duck or a anything else that is regulated by law, it is your responsibility. Now another person can claim the item and therefore provide legal guidance but you are still responsible and the warden can decide to give you a ticket or not. Then a judge or jury would have to decide the letter of the law.

I've watched COPS several times, and everytime a passenger steps forward and claims possession, he wins possession and the citation and/or arrest.

If no one fesses up, sure the owner gets the blame.

Yes I have watch COPS a time or two. That doesn't apply here either. That is not what the regulations that you posted are saying, at all. It certainly does not pertain to what this conversation is about.

Spriggs hit it one the head. If you are there, they are in your possession. Period. No gray area. Just know what birds are yours, and claim possession of them. The way the law is written, person A can not get a ticket for 12 birds in his possession if person B claims to posses 6 of them, no matter if they are tagged or seperated.

What about while you are hunting? Say there are 4 of you and no dog, so you are shooting birds and just letting them float in the tank to be retrieved later.

Well Bill that would make you an all out lawbreaker. Put your hands up.

WAL. You are over-thinking this subject. Here it is straight from the TPWD website....

Bag and Possession Limits for Ducks

DUCK DAILY BAG LIMIT:
The daily bag limit for ducks is six, which may include no more than five mallards (only two of which may be hens); three wood ducks; two redheads; two pintail; one canvasback; and one "dusky" duck (mottled duck, Mexican like duck, black duck and their hybrids are closed the first five days of the season in each zone). For all other species not listed, the bag limit shall be six.

The problem with a GW is that he has no idea what YOU shot that day. All he can go by is what he sees.

For example, if you and your brother are sitting in a blind and have 3 Redheads in your pile of ducks, how is the GW supposed to know who shot what? Did you shoot 2 and your brother 1? Did you shoot 3 Redheads? GW does not know.

All he knows is that each hunter is allowed to shoot 6 ducks per day and those duck species must fall in line with what TPWD has allowed. If they are in a pile, GW has no clue what you shot and will assume what he wants to assume.

A lot of times that Scaup that you just shot to finish your limit turns out to be a Redhead hen and now you have 9 Redheads floating on the pond when the GW shows up.

Now what?

I am not overthinking anything, I was asking for a reference to the law, or what I am seeing now, an internet myth. So what you saying there is the GW can't distinguish who shot what. The burden of proof never left his responsibility, unitl there is law stating a specific violation. I just asked if anyone had the violation link. I had no idea it would go 6 pages. The only reason I keep reading all this is I was hoping somebody would actually FIND THE ARREST TITLE

Its simple. I am not going to look for an arrest title. You will "LIKELY" get cited for being over the limit since there is no way for you to prove that you are not over the limit.

I get what you are saying and don't disagree with you.

You are asking for a ticket if you come across a GW who believes in ducks being separated. Your choice I guess. You can always fight it in court but you probably will not win that battle since the GW has more experience in these cases.

Gosh dang Wal just sort your freaking ducks!!!! Its not like they are asking you to give a kidney or something.