What is yalls opinion? Which is going to pack a bigger punch. A 7mm-08 or a 25-06. I know that the 7mm-08 has more lead and the 25-06 is faster. Just wanting to find out.

For Texas deer, they are both excellent, and IMO, you could kill a truckload of deer with each and probably not tell the difference.

If you are hunting in heavy cover where shots will be 200 yds or less, I'd probably opt to the 7-08, which can be had in a shorter and handier package. If you may encounter longer shots, I'd lean toward the 25/06.

Have to agree with JJH. 7MM bullets have always killed better than they should. The old 7MM mauser accounted for hundreds of elephants back in the day. 7MM is almost perfect ballistically (BC) at 140 or 160 grains. the 25 calibers also kill better than they should. My 257 Roberts has dropped hogs and deer like an 06' on many occasions. I would lean towards the 7/08 as an all arounder while the 2506 is more of a long range thoroughbred. I also like to compatc rifles that the 708 is chambered in.

Thanks guys!

Definitely the 25/06 but its all about shot placement

Welcome to the THF. That is an excellent first post.

Knock down power is meaning less if bullet placement is poor, too many folks forget that.

Hope you enjoy being around the campfire with us.

If you give me a choice I would go with the 7-08 over the 25-06 when talking in terms of knock down!

I am a huge fan of the 25 caliber, but when it comes to stoping a deer or hog in its tracks I have had much better luck with the 7mm!

Both excellent calibers though!!

For me it would come down to which rifle is the better deal.
also you can get 100 grain remmy ammo for the 270. a 25-06 in a 270, basicly.

Just go with a 7mm rem mag if you please!!!

You know, the strange thing is, the outfitter I hunt elk with in Colorado, and who has been guiding elk hunters for over 40 years, flatly states that he has seen more elk shot and lost with a 7mm Rem Mag than all other calibers combined.

I don't know how many critters you have killed in your career, but having been involved either as the shooter or the guide, in the deaths of a couple of hundred critters over the years, and that is everything from cottontail rabbits to musk ox, Knock Down Power Don't Mean Chit Without PROPER BULLET PLACEMENT, and that ain't an opinion.

Quote:

---

My point is that any animal hit with a well placed bullet from a 7mm rem mag will NOT go far...thats a fact!!!

---

The main concept, is that any animal hit with a placed bullet, FROM ANY GUN, will not go far, that is a fact.

It really does not matter what the caliber is, and I have owned and killed plenty of critters with a 7 mag, along with a 375 H&H and a 22 Hornet and a 257 Roberts.

To Many People Think Pounds Of Energy/Knock Down Power is the answer, and because of that take Piss Poor shots, relying on Knock Down Power to "Get The Job Done".

For the average American/Texas Deer and Feral Hog hunter, knock down power is a distant second to bullet placement.

Even with elk and moose and the bigger critters, a muscle/rib cage/heart-lung shot animal is going to show little if any effect from even elephant class calibers.

Unless bones are struck/broken, the normal controlled-expansion bullets that most hunters use actually impart very little of that energy into the carcass of animal.

I am not knocking a 7mm Rem Mag, but it is not the be all end all of rifle cartridges.

I'm curious what some here think the definition of knockdown power is.

knock down is Ft.lbs of energy at impact.

crazy horse is right on the money, i've seen more animals take off after being shot with a 7mm mag and .300 wsm than any other animals. unless you hit bone(shoulder blades are perfect), then you totally negate any advantage you had by shooting a magnum cartridge at deer sized game.

if your going to lung shoot a deer, your better off with a 115 grain soft point from a 25-06 than a 160 grain partition outta a 7mm mag. energy means nothing if it passes thru a deer and stops in the mesquite tree behind it

Technically speaking....My Rule of Thumb concerning "Knock Down Power" goes like this:
Foot pounds of Energy on the target is the defining description of the KDP phrase ... as computed by the weight of the bullet at a known given speed at impact X's the bullet construction - a factor of Sectional Density (aka a measurement of the length of the bullet relative to caliber diameter ) x's the gross bullet weight x's the strength or mallebility (aka softness-hardness of the bullet material used) x's the bullet's shape and contruction - see the difference between the Nosler double chamber construction in a Partition vs the thin sidewall and delrin plastic tip of the Ballistic Tip that is designed more for accuracy than deep penetration on a game animal, or the Barnes solid copper monometal TSX's etc.

As CHC sez in reference to the common application of the KDP phrase, is expressed as a factor of DRT aka "Dead Right There" performance in judging one caliber/bullet combo against another one... with little or no comprehension of what KDP actually is. A former dealer in Longview TX and I had an interesting conversation one evening with a young man who judged a 300Wby's to have significantly more KDP than a 300WMg solely on the Wby's louder muzzle blast, higher expense of the ammo used and more severe recoil...but his overiding argument was THAT the watermelons being shot at with the Wby exploded with a 1-2 feet larger splat than the WMg's melons at 300 yards. He just could not accept that the differences were so slight in bullet performance and was very intent on acquiring a special order Mk V 300wby at triple the price of the WMg the dealer had on his shelf. Later the kid admited the Wby was shooting HollowPoints and the WMg was shooting heavier tougher bullets when he was confronted with purchasing Wby proprietary ammo at triple the WMg ammo's prices in Remmy & Winchester labels and crawfished on paying for the SP, cursing the dealer for the ambiguity in ammo prices...instead of his own ignorance and hard headedness refusing to learn something.

IMO the needs of each hunting circumstance varies by: the degree of accuracy needed in shot placement for a particular animal in a particular location, the possiblity of enhancing the difficulty of recovering a dead or wounded animal with poor bullet placement or poor choice in the caliber/bullet used, and the Real Time possiblity of the Hunter being turned into fajita meat by a lightly wounded or already dead on it's feet animal with a determined Will to Live. These factors are what I use in determining whether or not a particular caliber/bullet combo is sufficient for the job at hand. I tend to err on the side of caution and don't see how far I can push the envelope anymore as my growth in the number of "DID YA'LL SEE THAT!!! I can't believe I got away with that" experiences has about reached it's max lifetime limit. It is commonly said that "God Looks After Fools and Drunks" and since I don't allow my self to drink in excess very often anymore, I try and not do the kind Foolish Stupid Stunts I was once known for anymore...and possibly tempt God to rethink His options at allowing me continue to harvest the Daisy's intead of pushing them above ground for others to harvest.

It is a proven fact that critters with their mobility reduced severely do not go far, just as it is a proven fact that the reduction/total interuption of service viability of an animals C&C, HVAC & Hydralic Systems all lead to a favorable result for the Hunter to recover the game animal safely and easily.
While I've never been to Africa or Alaska or hunted really Dangerous Game in North America I have been known to severely PIZZ off numerous venemous snakes and hogs with poor shot placements that were not instant DRT results...usually from a sudden and unexplained over supply of adrenalin in my own Command & Control System due to the unexpected closeness of the encounter sometimes measured in inches instead of yards... I've found thru personal hands on experience It is REALLY hard to aim accurately while treading thin air sometimes.

In Europe it is common for Hunters to have to shoot in timed performance graded tests at moving targets to be allowed a Hunting Permit...and not everyone with the available cash is allowed top purchase a Permit...kinda like the Concealed Carry Permits available in some states in the US. It is also common in Europe & Africa for the governing Game Commission to set a minimum energy level of caliber/bullet weight for hunting a particular animal...both laws of which I think would provide a better approach to hunting in Texas, and all of the US.

Some of the beginnings of this are seen in Texas's restrictions against air rifles and rimfire calibers for taking Legal Game Animals like WT DEER, Colorado also has some CF Rifle minimums for hunting Elk and Bear...and most if not all states now require a Hunters Education or Safety course if you were born after a certain date...but IMO the great failing is we don't require a minimum level of a Hunter's Shooting Proficiency that would result in a greater understanding of the necessity for accurate shot placement on game animals. JMHO and YMMV
Ron

It depends on whose theory a person is looking at.

Also it depends on the design of the bullets being used.

A flat nosed or round nosed bullet is going to transmit more of the energy of the bullet to the shoulder muscles of an animal than a spitzer or pointed bullet is.

Simple test, take a needle and a 1/8th. inch diameter piece of dowel rod, hold them a foot from your arm, and jab yourself with each and you will get a truer understanding of Knock Down Power.

I really would not recommend trying it, but that needle is going to sink right in and other than the pain, the arm being stuck with the needle, is not going to move until the hand holding the needle makes contact.

From the instant the end of the dowel rod touches the arm and until or unless it penetrates the skin, it will be pushing the arm away.

On the larger animals with heavier bones and muscle groupings, and skin, hits to the shoulders/hips/neck, bullets, especially the flat nosed and round nose are going to begin to expand on contact, faster than the more pointed varieties.

For the average Texas hunter, and unless they are trying shoulder shots on 200 pound feral hogs or larger, ther just isn't enough chit to the critters normally hunted here, to discern the effect of energy/knock down power.

WileyCoyote gave a more scientific formula for it than what I can, but knock down power is not all some folks make it out to be, especially on deer.

Some other thoughts on the topic http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power.htm

I will agree that people that look only at FtLbs of energy are missing the boat in alot of cases!!

For example:
One of my favorite magnum calibers these days is the 300 Remington Ultra Mag! I have shot quite a few critters with it, but I cant ever recall dropping any animal in its tracks so far!

On the other hand one of my favorite lever calibers is the 444 Marlin! It dont pack near the punch that the 300 Ultra Mag does, but that 240 grain flat nose bullet has droped them in thier tracks every single time, except once, but in that case I hit both front shoulders and the deer did a complete flip before landing on its back right where it once stood!!

My point is, dont get caught up in the whole power thing or you might be disapointed with the results!!

Good Post.

Elementary physics says that "knock-down power" is a misnomer. If a bullet emerging from a cartridge were "powerful" enough to "knock down" a deer, it would "knock down" the human (who likely weighs more than the deer) behind the "bullet launcher".

If a bullet hits the CNS system of a deer, it will drop instantly, but it will not be "knocked down".

A bullet through the heart/lungs will kill a deer quickly, but it will not knock it down.

The key to all these comments, is where the hit was made, the type of projectile(bullet) being used, and how fast it was moving.

Bullets with a large frontal area, i.e. Flat Nose / Round Nose, are going to hit with more resistance at the start, then will a sharp nosed/pointed soft point/spire point/spitzer point.

Hitting a deer thru the front shoulders with a sharp nosed bullet and breaking the shoulders, is going to kill it just as dead as the flat nose bullet.

The differences are that the sharp pointed bullet is going to be traveling faster upon impact and the frontal area that makes first contact is considerably smaller.

A flat nose or round nose is usually going at lower velocities, and instead of relying on expansion to reach caliber diameter or larger, when that bullet hits it is already at half or more of caliber diameter upon contact.

As someone that uses larger than normal calibers for much of my hunting, I can attest from first hand experience, knock down power/bullet energy does figure into the equation, but not as significantly as bullet placement.