These AR debates always seem so well rehearsed. Every one the same as the last. Everyone's arguments copy-pasted from the last AR post. 6 pages and goin strong!

I hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how ARs are terrible for the herd, more yearlings taken, more does taken, etc.

Where I end up is always here:

I hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how ARs are terrible for the herd, more yearlings taken, more does taken, etc. But no FACTS.

Surveys show that a huge percetage of ALL Texas hunters kill only one deer or zero deer. That shows the "overharvest" arguments are just wrong. That's why none of my questions asking for facts to support this doom and gloom are never answered.

Short version: It makes no difference what is allowed or what COULD happen. It only matters what IS happening.

Finally, the argument is it hurts the kids. Can the kids not still shoot a spike or 3 point (in fact, TWO now if they want)? Can they not shoot a doe or two?
Is all they were able to shoot pre-ARs basket racked bucks? What gives???

Again, I expect no actual answers to these questions but I pose them anyway.

As for "goals", anyone who had the goal of increased age structure in their deer was screwed because all the 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 yr old bucks were getting blasted. YOU CAN'T MANAGE DEAD DEER.

For me, ARs have dramatically helped my age structure and, yes, increased antler size. So my daughter is not relegated to does and goatheads and killed a
nice buck instead of a goathead.

I refuse to apologize for being happy about that.

If that is the case...I don't think you can blame AR's, blame the hunters

That is the real issue. Laws/Regs are put in place for hunting by TPWD to be followed if you want to. In the end it is up to the landowner/hunter to follow them or use their own rules that fit into the the TPWD regs. To many want rules that meet their personal hunting issues not that of others. There in lies the real problem trying to right regs that please all.

Laws/Regs are put in place for hunting by TPWD to be followed if you want to.

Where I end up is always here:
But no FACTS.

Surveys show that a huge percetage of ALL Texas hunters kill only one deer or zero deer. That shows the "overharvest" arguments are just wrong.
I refuse to apologize for being happy about that.

Why can't the ProARs people, accept the fact that it may not be the end all cure for everyone statewide?

Yay, they work for you and you like them. What "surveys" are you talking about anyway? First you say the extra spike tags don't matter that much because it uncommon to see a spike and then you say if the kids want to shoot a buck they can shoot a spike.

Isn't it past your bedtime?

In reverse, glad you are happy and they work for you and yours.

Second, you are smarter than that, using a statewide general survey, and trying to prove that overharvest isn't happening in some counties is a poor use of statistics. Because the hunters that don't take one, far outweigh the ones that do, doesn't mean it's not happening.

As for facts, there's tons of evidence out there if you look.
Fannin County's AR's were based on 8 deer, yes 8, taken only from game warden reports on poachers, etc. Legally taken deer were never counted. There are tons of answers even on here.

I personally did a FOIA request and got tons of raw date from TPWD. After melting it, and visiting with them, even "experts" agree the system has flaws. They know it too. They just don't have the funds to implement the science at a local level.

Even their own scientific review, authorized by TPWD, concluded they didn't have enough data to make this call, and that they were extrapolating data too far from statewide summaries to make local regs.



I applaude those of you that it has helped,and I've never questioned that it has helped.

Why can't the ProARs people, accept the fact that it may not be the end all cure for everyone statewide?

In reverse, glad you are happy and they work for you and yours.

Second, you are smarter than that, using a statewide general survey, and trying to prove that overharvest isn't happening in some counties is a poor use of statistics. Because the hunters that don't take one, far outweigh the ones that do, doesn't mean it's not happening.

As for facts, there's tons of evidence out there if you look.
Fannin County's AR's were based on 8 deer, yes 8, taken only from game warden reports on poachers, etc. Legally taken deer were never counted. There are tons of answers even on here.

I personally did a FOIA request and got tons of raw date from TPWD. After melting it, and visiting with them, even "experts" agree the system has flaws. They know it too. They just don't have the funds to implement the science at a local level.

Even their own scientific review, authorized by TPWD, concluded they didn't have enough data to make this call, and that they were extrapolating data too far from statewide summaries to make local regs.



I applaude those of you that it has helped,and I've never questioned that it has helped.

Why can't the ProARs people, accept the fact that it may not be the end all cure for everyone statewide?

They are not enacted statewide Sig. If you've got proof that they are counter-productive in your county,that's great. provide it to them.Work with them to change it. Heck,I'd love to see it too.

I'm not saying I have all the answers. I just don't like it when everyone else acts like THEY do-without any facts.

That's all.

I'll be more blunt.

I simply do not believe that ARs are responsible for:

1)A greatly increased yearling or doe harvest either in the state as a whole or in any individual county.

Yet that's what everyone who is anti-AR says. Like I say,I just don't believe it. Show it to me. Then I'll believe it.

Other than that,if someone just wants to say "I hate ARs because I liked the freedom to kill little bucks", at least you are being honest. But nobody says that. They just whine and state stuff as it were fact that strains credulity.

I will be honest. I realize that I sway back and forth in these conversations, mainly because I enjoy the arguments ...but I don't like the fact that someone is going to tell me which deer I can or cannot shoot. I don't want my neighbor telling me, I don't want my wife telling me and I sure don't want the state telling me.

My ranch is different than your ranch and your ranch is different than the ranch next to it. If I want to let my kid shoot a 2.5 yo 6 pointer, what is the issue? If I want to take a 4.5 yo that might not be 13", what is the issue? If I think that there are 2 bucks with inferior genetics and are mature, why can't I take them both instead of a baby spike and then have to choose which one to take? From most the information on the places that do agree that a spike is inferior and should be shot, there are so many other management practices that need to be in place and followed before that would even make a difference.

From the rants and raves pre-AR's, it seems that something needed to be done in certain areas of the state. A blanket fix is never the answer, but how do you address them in isolated areas?

I respect that. But the fact is, the state has been telling you what you can or cannot shoot for over a hundred years-since the first seasons and bag limits were enacted. Telling everyone. And it's a dang good thing they did too-otherwise there wouldn't be a deer left to shoot.

Y'all act like everyone would be a good manager if the state left everyone alone. Nothing could be further from the truth. Fact is many if not most people could care less about management. So TPWD has to do it blanket style. It's not perfect,but it's better than no management at all because many people would shoot everything they could if there weren't laws prohibiting it.

I'll say it again-the reason for all game laws enacted by TPWD (flawed though they may be):

YOU CAN'T MANAGE DEAD DEER.