I can only add that Young county used to sound like the 4th of July every day of rifle season before ARs and now, not so much. Don't know if the overall deer herd has benefitted from them but have been told by others with more experience in that county that it has.

1.5- 2.5 year olds at most do 20% of the breeding and usually a lower percentage than that. So, for that reason you or Johnny knocking off deer in these age groups doesn't effect the breeding population.

So it's ok to knock off yearling spikes because they don't do much breeding? So a yearling 6 point breeds more? Is that what you are saying? That's just as contradictory as the regs themselves. Don't shoot yearling bucks, here's two free yearling buck tags..lol

With all this back and forthing, there's STIll the extra spike/unbranched antler tag and yes I know you don't have to use it BUT it still allows you to legally shoot a yearling spike AND his daddy. Where's the letting bucks mature logic in that?

That would be true if you had a good age structure but if your oldest bucks are only 2.5 then .5 (yes buck fawns can breed in rare instances), 1.5 and 2.5 do 100% of your breeding.

Yearling genetically inferior bucks (at least one smooth antler). Did I ever say anything about little Johnny not being able to pull the trigger? Do you know what the buck/doe ratio is in your area? TPW might be able to get you that info.

I haven't.. they had all matured to desired specs.

It's all about antler cosmetics. An ugly spike or 3 point is liable to breed what some consider an "ugly" buck, so take them out as an extra buck but that 2.5 year old 8 point with an even 12" wide spread rack will grow up to be what we as hunters are being taught is a trophy and therefore he will breed other trophies....ALTHOUGH so many ranches want those plain old run of the mill 8 points culled as they are called management bucks. God forbid we have those running around messing the herds up. It's all about "healthy" herds my big fat white hind end.

those are typically genetically inferior deer that need to be culled from the herd.

because they endanger the over all health of the herd or merely the cosmetics of the antlers on future bucks????

At least we finally got someone to actually say what I have been trying to get someone to say. It has nothing to do with the health of the herd, it has to do with genetics for growing antler. If it was about herd health they would not allow ANY yearling bucks to be shot. It's ok to shoot a yearling as long as he's genetically inferior... got it.

Exactly what I've been saying in prior posts.

I do know a little about managing a place for antlers. I have cam pictures of some bucks this Summer that people don't even believe came from East Texas. One of them would likely be the largest one in East TExas on a low fence property. I also know that antler management is not all hunting is about.

Seriously? AR are all about improving herd health, AND producing better bucks. Can you honestly tell me you would rather shoot an immature 3 point buck than put the effort into enjoying the challenge of hunting a mature 8 or 10 point buck? And if you say yes, then we really have nothing else to discuss.

Seriously? You just said the young bucks needed a pass because the buck to doe ratio is way out of whack did you not? How is passing a yearling 6 point and killing 2 yearling spikes making an impact on the buck to doe ratio? Give me a break!

Still has nothing to do with herd health, just buck beauty. What makes a buck with a deformed set of antlers unhealthy? I'm talking the buck itself, not his headgear.

Everyone having trouble with herd health questions needs to look up the deer studies done at Kerr Wildlife Management area. I think that you guys should go to the TPWD and tell them exactly what you have been telling us! We want the AR restriction dropped because we want to shoot any deer we please, we're happy deteriorating our trophy genetics, we're happy filling our tags with whatever deer that crosses our pipeline no matter the age! After all that, I wonder what the biologists at TPWD would say to that?

Any buck we please as long as it's legal GAWD!....as it was before, when the herds and hunters were both happy. Why does everyone have to be labelled a trophy hunter oops, I mean a herd management hunter and those that aren't one are labelled a trigger happy poacher? Idiocracy.

The hunters are much happier now everywhere I hunt.

Embrace them, Curly.

Hold them dear.

Love them like they've loved you.

Drink much? Where in any of my posts did I say I wanted to shoot any immature buck? Hard to argue with someone that is for a regulation in a County they don't even hunt in. That's classic right there.

What is the buck to doe ratio on my lease?
What is my deer density?
How many hunters are on my lease?
What about the food sources on my lease?

You mean you have no idea??? Neither does TP&W

I think the big idea missed here is what is wrong in East Texas. We hunt a four deer county. We don't harvest deer on our lease unless their death serves a purpose. Ratios are off, poor genetics, trophy or overall herd helath. Just because you have four tags doesn't mean you have to kill four deers.

It's been fun but I'm gonna hit the sack. I'm sure it will still be going tomorrow so I'll check back in then to see what I missed. Good night to all. :-)