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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: BowSlayer]
#3521355
08/28/12 10:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903 |
call your county game biologist. Thank you for that very helpful tidbit and it's clear that your mind is made up, so why should we waste our breath. If you don't believe the professionals, why would you believe someone on an internet forum.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3521396
08/28/12 10:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
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Posts: 2,484 |
I dont care what you guys shoot! All i'm saying is it was entended to allow a certain group of targeted deer in east texas the chance to mature! Period! I don't like the rule for what it stands for, but at the same time don't care if you grow weed, as long as we can tax it! Fair enough. It's hard to comprehend how the state would place antler restrictions on deer to allow more deer to mature and in the same regulation allow each hunter to kill 2 yearling bucks if they choose to along with more does. I would venture to say that probably 75% of our 2 year olds meet AR's anyway. I just feel like the regs took away from my son's growing up deer hunting experience. It places more importance on antlers than the experience or the table fare. When I grew up here I would spend every day after school and every weekend running around these East Texas woods just hoping to see a buck, any buck. My son can't do that. He has to sit in a box and have me judge the deer to see if it's legal to shoot before he can shoot it. My first buck was a yearling 8 point that I still display in my office to this day. I have no desire to shoot a small deer now but it's a natural progression that the state has taken away from our up-and-comers. Have you ever shot a buck that would not meet the current AR's? Were you proud to shoot him at the time? If you're over 25 years old then you have. I got a lease in West Texas just so I could let my son feel like a king and hunt by himself. I didn't have to worry about him shooting an illegal buck because there is no such thing there. I put him in a pop-up blind with a crossbow and told him I would be back at dark. He thought I went to the other side of the lease but I walked to where I could see the blind and sat down by a tree. 30 minutes later a yearling fork horn came strolling in to the pile of corn I had poured out by my son. I smiled from ear to ear because I knew he was about to kill that yearling. "thwack". He was so excited that he did it all by himself that he wanted to get it mounted. It's European Mounted in his room over his bed to this day. I should not have to drive 6 hours to be able to have that experience. And that is why I hate AR's. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: JJH]
#3521403
08/28/12 10:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
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call your county game biologist. Thank you for that very helpful tidbit and it's clear that your mind is made up, so why should we waste our breath. If you don't believe the professionals, why would you believe someone on an internet forum. Is that your way of saying "I have no idea"? That's what I get out of it. If you use breath to type you're doing something wrong. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3521418
08/28/12 10:57 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114
westexbuck
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114 |
Man I love this forum! People are so passionate about whatever topic! I mean a topic on doe piss could cause a forum throw down!
ANTLER METRIX Conquer Ground Adjustment!
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3521422
08/28/12 10:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
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Man I love this forum! People are so passionate about whatever topic! I mean a topic on doe piss could cause a forum throw down! Start a new thread on Doe Piss, I'm feeling frisky today. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: txshntr]
#3521449
08/28/12 11:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I hate the AR's! I hate the State feeling they needed to get involved! I hate all of it! I see where they might of been coming from, but nobody seemed unhappy in East Texas shooting whichever deer they were shooting. I just choose not to be a part of that type of hunting. I was perfectly happy with what I was shooting. You are never happy with what you are shooting. Yes I am.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: rifleman]
#3521646
08/28/12 11:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,950
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,950 |
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3521647
08/28/12 11:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,950
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,950 |
Man I love this forum! People are so passionate about whatever topic! I mean a topic on doe piss could cause a forum throw down! Go for it...we will figure out a way to make an argument out of it 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: BowSlayer]
#3521766
08/29/12 12:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I dont care what you guys shoot! All i'm saying is it was entended to allow a certain group of targeted deer in east texas the chance to mature! Period! I don't like the rule for what it stands for, but at the same time don't care if you grow weed, as long as we can tax it! Fair enough. It's hard to comprehend how the state would place antler restrictions on deer to allow more deer to mature and in the same regulation allow each hunter to kill 2 yearling bucks if they choose to along with more does. I would venture to say that probably 75% of our 2 year olds meet AR's anyway. I just feel like the regs took away from my son's growing up deer hunting experience. It places more importance on antlers than the experience or the table fare. When I grew up here I would spend every day after school and every weekend running around these East Texas woods just hoping to see a buck, any buck. My son can't do that. He has to sit in a box and have me judge the deer to see if it's legal to shoot before he can shoot it. My first buck was a yearling 8 point that I still display in my office to this day. I have no desire to shoot a small deer now but it's a natural progression that the state has taken away from our up-and-comers. Have you ever shot a buck that would not meet the current AR's? Were you proud to shoot him at the time? If you're over 25 years old then you have. I got a lease in West Texas just so I could let my son feel like a king and hunt by himself. I didn't have to worry about him shooting an illegal buck because there is no such thing there. I put him in a pop-up blind with a crossbow and told him I would be back at dark. He thought I went to the other side of the lease but I walked to where I could see the blind and sat down by a tree. 30 minutes later a yearling fork horn came strolling in to the pile of corn I had poured out by my son. I smiled from ear to ear because I knew he was about to kill that yearling. "thwack". He was so excited that he did it all by himself that he wanted to get it mounted. It's European Mounted in his room over his bed to this day. I should not have to drive 6 hours to be able to have that experience. And that is why I hate AR's. That's the best point I've ever seen made on the subject. Unfortunately,most hunters feel that having larger bucks as a result of increased aged structure was their priority. And TPWD has acted on that. Frankly,though, I can't iamgine why one would want to go back to the days of praying to see a horn to shoot-but I get what you are saying.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#3521821
08/29/12 12:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
All of this over the subject of shooting an animal. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: BowSlayer]
#3521937
08/29/12 12:56 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903 |
call your county game biologist. Thank you for that very helpful tidbit and it's clear that your mind is made up, so why should we waste our breath. If you don't believe the professionals, why would you believe someone on an internet forum. Is that your way of saying "I have no idea"? That's what I get out of it. If you use breath to type you're doing something wrong. No, it's my way of saying it's clear that you don't really want an answer to your question... you already "know" the answer, and don't want to be confused with facts or data. I could type my little heart out and it would do no good, except that this thread (like so many before it) would go on for another 14 pages. If you really want to understand your local situation, there is no one better qualified to discuss it with you, from a professional position, than the local TPW biologist assigned to your county. And he gets paid to do it. So if you REALLY want to understand, you would go ask him instead of complaining here.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: JJH]
#3521988
08/29/12 01:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
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Is that your way of saying "I have no idea"? That's what I get out of it. If you use breath to type you're doing something wrong.  [/quote] No, it's my way of saying it's clear that you don't really want an answer to your question... you already "know" the answer, and don't want to be confused with facts or data. I could type my little heart out and it would do no good, except that this thread (like so many before it) would go on for another 14 pages. If you really want to understand your local situation, there is no one better qualified to discuss it with you, from a professional position, than the local TPW biologist assigned to your county. And he gets paid to do it. So if you REALLY want to understand, you would go ask him instead of complaining here. [/quote] Just as I suspected, you have no idea. In the first place I don't remember asking you in the first place so I'm not sure why you felt the need to interject yourself. Secondly, I do know the answer. I get tired of reading people post how AR's help with the health of the deer herd so I asked him how it helped. He didn't have an answer and neither do you. Why, because there is no evidence to support that AR's improve the health of a deer herd. My deer herd was not unhealthy before AR's. Wait, I did see a doe sneeze one time, does that count? You actually made a point for me when you said "If you really want to understand your local situation, there is no one better qualified to discuss it with you, from a professional position, than the local TPW biologist assigned to your county. " As far as I know nobody came to my leases to conduct a deer density or "health" survey prior to mandating the restrictions on the properties. All properties even within the same County are not the same. So, if you want to debate it then let's do it. You might even be surprised how much I do know about PROPER deer management.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: txshntr]
#3521994
08/29/12 01:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: BowSlayer]
#3522028
08/29/12 01:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903
JJH
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,903 |
You might even be surprised how much I do know about PROPER deer management.
If you really think that proper age structure of the buck population has no bearing on herd health, then yes, I would be surprised. But I don't really think you think that. I think you are just mad about being inconvenienced, and perhaps rightfully so.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: rifleman]
#3522031
08/29/12 01:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I be happy too. I just like to "discuss" these matters-keeps me sharp for the days when it counts. 
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#3522050
08/29/12 01:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Curly
Overrated
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Overrated
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366 |
No matter what the reason is you shoot a deer, you need to be happy with it!!!!!
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: Curly]
#3522091
08/29/12 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,814
quackaholic1
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,814 |
I be happy too when mama cooks them up and puts them on the table. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: JJH]
#3522164
08/29/12 01:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,484 |
You might even be surprised how much I do know about PROPER deer management.
If you really think that proper age structure of the buck population has no bearing on herd health, then yes, I would be surprised. But I don't really think you think that. I think you are just mad about being inconvenienced, and perhaps rightfully so. I am not mad about being inconvenienced. I already stated why I don't like the restrictions. I would still LOVE to hear how allowing bucks to grow old makes the herd more healthy. That's a serious question. So how does it?? You pretend to know but for some reason you refuse to answer the question. You think old bucks are more healthy than young bucks? Or are young bucks more healthy than old bucks? What disease or other "health" related issues will arise by removing the AR's like it was for the last 100 years? Please, enlighten me. In all seriousness, if it was not for the kids I couldn't care less about AR's. All they would have to do to make me happy would be to exempt all people under 17 years of age from the restrictions. One of the properties I hunt is a very strictly managed property. We had strict rules on buck harvest before anybody even knew what AR's were.There are rules in place with fines for shooting young bucks. But, we had enough common sense to know that we could not and should not hold the kids to these rules. If a kid on our lease got a shot at a buck and wanted to shoot it the only thing they would get from other members was a high five and a "good job". At the very least they could lift the restrictions for the youth only weekends and let the kids shoot any buck they want to.
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#3522289
08/29/12 02:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
I be happy too. I just like to "discuss" these matters-keeps me sharp for the days when it counts. I like to distribute birth certificates to them and shoot them 5-8yrs later 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: BowSlayer]
#3522417
08/29/12 02:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 26
1RancherAg
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 26 |
You might even be surprised how much I do know about PROPER deer management.
If you really think that proper age structure of the buck population has no bearing on herd health, then yes, I would be surprised. But I don't really think you think that. I think you are just mad about being inconvenienced, and perhaps rightfully so. I am not mad about being inconvenienced. I already stated why I don't like the restrictions. I would still LOVE to hear how allowing bucks to grow old makes the herd more healthy. That's a serious question. So how does it?? You pretend to know but for some reason you refuse to answer the question. You think old bucks are more healthy than young bucks? Or are young bucks more healthy than old bucks? What disease or other "health" related issues will arise by removing the AR's like it was for the last 100 years? Please, enlighten me. In all seriousness, if it was not for the kids I couldn't care less about AR's. All they would have to do to make me happy would be to exempt all people under 17 years of age from the restrictions. One of the properties I hunt is a very strictly managed property. We had strict rules on buck harvest before anybody even knew what AR's were.There are rules in place with fines for shooting young bucks. But, we had enough common sense to know that we could not and should not hold the kids to these rules. If a kid on our lease got a shot at a buck and wanted to shoot it the only thing they would get from other members was a high five and a "good job". At the very least they could lift the restrictions for the youth only weekends and let the kids shoot any buck they want to. To answer your questions: In these particular over-populated and over-hunted counties, the buck to doe ratios were way out of balance. Allowing bucks to grow older increases the number of bucks and the buck to doe ratio, thus allowing more does to be bred in a shorter period of time, so fawns will be born at about the same time at the right time of year, allowing for higher fawn survival. Also, more bucks allows for more competition for does, better disbursement of genetics, and better natural selection. With more and older bucks, little Johnny now has a better chance to shoot a nicer deer. Little Johnny can now see deer all season long and have a better hunting experience. Little Johnny can still shoot a young buck with at least one smooth antler. Now tell me, what the heck is wrong with that?
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: 1RancherAg]
#3522480
08/29/12 02:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
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To answer your questions: In these particular over-populated and over-hunted counties, the buck to doe ratios were way out of balance. Allowing bucks to grow older increases the number of bucks and the buck to doe ratio, thus allowing more does to be bred in a shorter period of time, so fawns will be born at about the same time at the right time of year, allowing for higher fawn survival. Also, more bucks allows for more competition for does, better disbursement of genetics, and better natural selection. With more and older bucks, little Johnny now has a better chance to shoot a nicer deer. Little Johnny can now see deer all season long and have a better hunting experience. Little Johnny can still shoot a young buck with at least one smooth antler. Now tell me, what the heck is wrong with that? [/quote] You make some good points but they simply don't match up with where I hunt. We have never had a problem with all of our does having fawns and having them at the correct time of year. As far as Little Johnny goes, I don't see how hunting all season and never getting to pull the trigger on a buck makes for a better hunting experience. If you have ever hunted these East Texas thickets you would know that if Little Johnny does happen to see a legal deer he will have about 4.3 seconds to pull a shot off before the buck is gone. Mature bucks don't come stand under feeders here. Now, explain to me how if the immature bucks should be left to mature why folks in AR Counties are now allowed to kill not 1 but 2 yearling bucks if they want to. 
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: 1RancherAg]
#3522485
08/29/12 02:34 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114
westexbuck
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114 |
ANTLER METRIX Conquer Ground Adjustment!
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3522500
08/29/12 02:38 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114
westexbuck
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 114 |
1-2 yr old bucks only do 10% of the breeding
ANTLER METRIX Conquer Ground Adjustment!
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3522502
08/29/12 02:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,484 |
Everybody that has never shot an immature buck in their life please speak up now (insert cricket sounds here)
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Re: Antler restrictions
[Re: westexbuck]
#3522507
08/29/12 02:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,484
BowSlayer
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,484 |
1-2 yr old bucks only do 10% of the breeding What are you saying? I don't get it...
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