Generations before us Damn near elimantied the six sub species of elk(which they did in tx, nm, az , four sub species of Turkey, 5 species of wt, pronghorns, and mulies, two species of big horns.

Its lessons and processes we learned from domesticating generations of animals and the implementation of those practices that saved them.

Who are you talking about? The guy who started this thread runs a 4000 acre HF hunting operation.

that his neighbors fenced, and he now kills bigger deer then them...

He just got all the good genetics...luck of the draw

Its lessons and processes we learned from domesticating generations of animals and the implementation of those practices that saved them.

Genetics haven't change on bit.. age structure has...but so has every where else that has learned that some deer don't grow there best antlers until 7.5 years of age.

He will show you the biggest deer killed before the fence and after the antler configs are very similar

I just shake thinking about where all this is going for my grandkids. I'm trying to think how HF will help things from this point? I could see them hurting the future 1) more and smaller High Fence properties less sporting hunts. 2) practices of just a few ranches gets our baby of hunting thrown out with the dirty water.

Oh goody, more conspiracy theories about HF ranches from those who have never set foot on one. YAYYYYYYY!!!!

Here's the dealio NP. You describe one type of HF operation. Unfortunately those do exist. However, in my experience, they are not the majority. You cannot lump all HF hunting ranches into the same category.

I've been on my fair share of HF ranches and none of them resembled anything that you described. There were no breeding pens, no breeder bucks, no bred does, no artificial anything, no northern genetics, etc.

They simply put up a tall perimeter fence so the deer within had a fighting chance to achieve the maximum potential and age before getting shot by some city boy on the lease next door.

I don't agree with nor like the HF breeder operations on small acreage. I agree, that is too much like livestock and wouldn't pay money to "hunt" it.

What I don't like is that too many people try to pigeon hole ALL HF into that category when it couldn't be farther from the truth. It's not different than saying "All lawyers are.....; All cops are....; all this race or that race are.....

NP, try taking a drive down Texas 16 south of San Antonio and all the way Falcon. Almost all HF for the whole way. Not very many of those HF places are for commercial hunting as you describe.

In fact a lot of South Texas is like that. Lot's of HF, not much commercial hunting. Maybe you see or experience something different in your part of the world, but in mine, it's a different game.

One of the very weakest red-herring arguments.

1)I have set foot on several. I have very detailed knowledge of the operations of two,right down to the books. Every detail.The more I know,the more they disgust me.You ever heard the "hands" laugh at the fat city boys behind their back while they "oooohhh and aaahhh" about their big buck to their face? I have. You ever see a guy shoot TWO big deer that were hanging around the breeder pen they had been let out of 2 days prior-and wonder why the second one just stood there?(With more laughter behind the barn.)

I got a million of 'em. So if it makes some of y'all feel good to say I can't afford it,or I'm jealous, or I don't have any experience with HF hunting, go ahead. But it's all

2)Even if you have not set foot on one,check this thing called the world wide web-it has lots of detailed information about hundreds of HF operations-mostly on those operations' very own web page.

As a cop,I'm pretty confident you haven't murdered anyone. However,I'm also pretty confident you know a little about the subject. Get what I am saying?

Understanding HF commercial deer operations does not require an advanced degree in biotechnical engineering. The thing pretty much speaks for itself-and I don't like what it says.

Maybe so. But I always get down to the question even on big HF places where the argument is "It really makes no difference".

And the question is this:Then why the HF?

The answers are not satisfying.

The bottom line to me is obvious:The HF is about CONTROL of the deer,not influence, but CONTROL.

And the very essence of hunting is about NOT having control. That's why it's called 'hunting'.

It seems simple to me but obviously it is not for all since there is so much disagreement on the subject.

Maybe so. But I always get down to the question even on big HF places where the argument is "It really makes no difference".

And the question is this:Then why the HF?

The answers are not satisfying.

The bottom line to me is obvious:The HF is about CONTROL of the deer,not influence, but CONTROL.

And the very essence of hunting is about NOT having control. That's why it's called 'hunting'.

It seems simple to me but obviously it is not for all since there is so much disagreement on the subject.

I have a friend that has worked hard all of his life to build his business into the success that it is now. A few years ago he bought 2 sections of land out of Harper. 1280 acres, low fence and couldn't grow big deer.

He fenced it and began an intensive management plan. He began year round protein and corn feeding. Got the numbers below carrying capacity and balanced the buck:doe ratio. He achieved a balanced age structure in the herd. No introduced deer. No genetics. No bred does. He's got what God put there. He routinely takes some 170-180 class bucks every year now. Keep in mind that when he bought the place you were lucky to see anything above 110.

I don't know about you but I think that it's cool to show what proper management and nutrition can and have accomplished. Wouldn't it be great if everybody could/would practice the same program. But they don't and they're not. Therefore, a guy with these desires has but one choice and that's HF.

He routinely takes some 170-180 class bucks every year now. Keep in mind that when he bought the place you were lucky to see anything above 110.

you couldn't have made my point better. why was all of this possible? supplemental feeding, predator elimination, keeping the states deer out of your neighbors sights, and I won't get into unwilding the deer.