Hogs no...sometimes only time to get the nocturnal piggies... Any deer at night or behind hi fence, some get upset..

I think this is funny, its a double standard isnt it? Why is it hunting for the exotics but not the deer? Maybe it is because most of the exotics are like shooting livestock anyhow.

People make fun of the guys who shoot the bufalo and watusi or however you spell it, but what about these sheep and such? Just cruise on down to the exotics section and you can see them a week before you shoot them in a cattle trailer with a tag in their ear. It aint no different. Deer behind a hi fence are just like deer anywhere.

I dont even know what put and take is. I agree completely on the exotic thing.

I dont have a problem with hi fences provided the deer are taken care of and the place is big enough and has cover. I do not like deer breeding, artificial ensimination, breeder pens etc. I like selective harvest population control, building age structure and suplemental feeding/food ploting. Thats just me though.

Unfortunately by your definition most Western big game isn't fair chase.

NM, CO, Neveda etc have miles of HF lining their roads.

I've seen pronghorn antelope run in circles in a pasture trying to find a hole to go through because they didn't want to jump a 4ft cattle fence.

I think the spirt of free chase is more about the method then height of the fence.

I find it amusing some times... You take some public land like lake grapevine...it surround by a lake and wall to wall houses and then I35 and Texas motor speedways... Technically its not hf'd but a deer will go over a hf before it will wonder through 5 miles of wall to wall houses in subdivisions, or swim across a lake.

They just take the ferry across

they'll swim across Rayburn on occassion. They lay up for a cpl hours afterward, but will do it.

What I don't understand is the comparison between HF and Feeders...if all it took was a feeder, everyone would kill the biggest deer all the time. Not the case. On many (not all) HF operations, you can pretty much pick the class of deer you want to kill and you get to do it all in 3 days. And most the HF places I have seen have feeders

There are exceptions to every rule, so there are LF places that killing a deer of a certain class isn't that difficult, but it is not the norm. With HF places, on average, you can kill bigger deer than on LF places. If not, what is the point in paying for the fence?

I have heard the argument that the HF does not effect the travel of the deer, it depends on the size, etc. I say BS. I hunt on a 10k acre ranch and if we HF'ed it, we would limit the movement of some of the deer. Either way you look at it, you are "trapping" the animal.

Then you take the feeder argument and compare it to the midwest where "baiting" isn't legal...but they can plant a 30 acre food plot and set up on it?

I don't care to hunt on a HF place, but I don't care if someone else does. There are LF places that I don't care to hunt on either though.

As far as exotics, it is not high on my priority list to go on a HF place and shoot an exotic, but I would.

What I find amusing is that HF apologists are always having to go to extremes in order to argue against the obvious-that penning a deer in to make sure its movement is restricted is not "fair chase". Like this one and the argument that the "HF doesn't really even work to keep them in" argument.

The height of the fence IS part of the "method"-in fact,the biggest part of the "method" for those that hunt behind them. Why? Because they want to be double-dog sure that big buck they've been seeing (or put there,or whatever) is gonna be on their place tomorrow,and the next day, and the next, until he is shot. If penning a deer in ain't part of the hunting "method" I don't know what is.

B&C and P&Y have it right.

But I also don't think that you can lump all the HF places into one category...and I think that happens alot.

first mistake is saying fair chase only has to do with high fence. Boone & Crockett actually has a new Ethics Director and besides high fence they look at all kinds of fair chase variables like baiting, game cameras, aerial scouting, deer drives, rut hunting, and long distance shooting.

It is up to each hunter within local laws to determine what they think is fair. All of us have to draw the line and there is such thing as legal, but not fair in high and low fence.

being active on THF and TFF it is certain that most hunters like high fence and most fisherman don't think trophy bass from a small lake should count. seems backwards to me, but each his own! HF people must be feeling more and more threatened, I see more negativity now from HF against LF only hunters vs. the LF guys putting down HF hunting.

I have a hunch there will be some sort of dispute about B&C/P&Y definition b/c of places like Carmen Island/Boggy/Black Hawk.

No certainly they are not all the same. But,as you correctly note, even on 10000 acres it restricts the deer and changes natural conditions. So B&C/P&Y simply chose not to try to draw a line and ban them all from book consideration. Which I applaud.

And I think that is a good thing. My purpose in posting so much on this subject is to expose all the arguments for those who have not made up their mind on the subject. Obviously in TX we have a whole generation many of whom see no difference between HF hunting and "fair chase" hunting. Because nobody wanted to ruffle feathers and the big bucks are going up on the wall. I,too, think the excess of "horn porn" and the lengths to feed it are leading to a backlash against this stuff. And I applaud that too.

I just wish more hunters would not hunt HF places. Their would be a lot less people applying for the Chaparral WMA and maybe I could get drawn.

I personally don't give a rat's butt about B&C or P&Y and their rules. Fact is for enough money one can kill huge bucks on low/no fence ranches and get their names in the books. If they just removed the names of the hunters and just honored the animal in the books a lot of the stigma would be removed.

Who cares about B&C? B&C does obviously... but they don't really have a foothold in Texas. When as a club you start to tell people that the way they have hunted for GENERATIONS is wrong and unfair... you lose those people's interest.

Try entering a buck and being honest that you saw it driving around in a top drive or a high rack (no fence) NOT FAIR CHASE

Try entering a deer you shot on a party tag NOT FAIR CHASE

They have their rules. It's fine. But don't use their rules to dictate ethics to the rest of us.

They don't dictate to anyone. They do attempt to influence just as myself and many others do. Which is our right. I know you commercial guys dont like it when we voice our thoughts but,hey,thats life. Just like I have to live with all the high fences up and down every road I travel so the play-like hunters can have themselves a big head for the wall.

Simply put,it's their club and you ain't getting a HF buck in their books.

I care. B&C and low fence hunting is how generations before us hunted. Turning deer into livestock was not the way of our forefathers. A 130-140 Deer really meant something and it still should today, but the HF deer porn has taken some of the sport out of it. I've heard many losing interest in deer hunting and old low fence outfitters in Texas that can get you a 120-140 aren't booking as many hunts.

Honestly I think using a gun, bow, or any other weapon hinders Fair Chase more than a hi-fence... I mean how many of us could harvest a deer If we were placed inside a 500 acre hi-fence piece of south texas bare arsed and bare footed?

Which is more impressive to most hunters...a 140" off LF or a 175" off a HF place? Why do you think that question comes up all the time when someone post a nice deer?

All a 130-140 inch deer ment to our forefathers before the commercialization of hunting was less meat cause you cant eat the horns.

Exactly. And do you notice that the answer usually has to be drug out of them? Because even most of the ones who do it know it's not really an accomplishment.

The deer taken off most HF places are like the "participation" trophies that are all the rage for the kids these days. Everybody gets one and they don't mean diddly.

Ya you missed the whole method by a mile... Hf is a management tool not a method.. method would be spot and stalk from a truck... Big horn sheep hunting with someone in the air spotting them for you, feeders, foodplots... Pushing elk into a one way canyon. Shooting pronghorn antelope under 500 yards

I mean really if you want to get down to it truely fair chase would be no ag feilds hunting, no transportation to and from the feild, no white oak trees, no food plots.

I'm not a defender of breeder deer by any means, Infact I hate it.

But BC fairchase is more hypocritical at best.

In the modern world of hunting fair chase doesn't exist...and hasn't the day blackpowder was invented

It's a cop out used by people to belittle others accomplishments....

Drug out of them lol... There where 3 deer over 175 shot lf last year that weren't going to be posted on here do to the same bs by the same people who scream hf...if its not hf...then the next statement is how much did that cost $$$$$$$$

It's bs.. same hf haters are the first to scream...wish I could afford a deer like that

What's more impressive a 140 deer lf deer in stx, hill country or Iowa