In 20 some years of dog training I have had maybe 2 dogs I couldn't force fetch and that was when I was starting out.

Any dog can be taught force fetch. You just have to know how do it properly. I've force fetched everything from poodles to pointers.

You need to have the skill set and patience. Also you need to be able to read a dog.

Angie

That was my thinking Angie. Like said by all, not all dogs are cut out for FF, a good reason to have pro help you. That is what I did with Molly, and what I will do with my next dog, or I just might have pro do it all.

I certainly can understand that... It's not a whole lot of fun that's for sure but it's necessary so you have the tools in place in case a issue arises.

Nothing is worse then someone bringing me dog that's 3 years old with mouth issues or delivery issues. How is that fair to the dog??

There are 2 phases of training that I give almost all my lessons on. Force Fetch and Force to the pile. Those 2 skill sets are the cornerstone of a well rounded retriever.

Angie

I thought I did good on FF (at 9 months), had a pro do the first session, and then he watched me do a few more sessions and rest I did on my own. Force to pile I did not do till Molly was almost 3, not a good way to do it, and she struggles on long blind retrieves because of it. Live and learn. I agree, force fetch and force to pile, critical foundation for a pup.

I have to disagree here. To fix something after the fact is very hard on dogs. Like I pointed out. Who wants to FF a 3 year with mouth issues?? That's very, very unfair to the dog. The collar enhances what the dog is doing at the time. To use it to stop a behavior is using it improperly. When you ask a dog to sit,,, why wouldn't it look at you if it knew to do so when you properly collar conditioned it?



The signs of hypothermia are there way, way before a dog refuses to retrieve. I'm sure you learned a big lesson there. I personally wouldn't hunt a dog in those conditions since they are Dangerous conditions. Our dogs trust us to look out for the care and to keep them safe. I can only imagine...



They weren't properly force fetched nor had they "generalized" the skill.


Hardly,,, not when someone who knew what they were doing did the job. And avoiding ff when it was started and done poorly only confuses the poor dog. Again,,, not being fair to the dog.

Angie

lol, love me some force fetch threads. Let's just be nice, and there is plenty of room on this here forum for more than one opinion.

Did not think anyone was getting nasty, yet. Just the facts....Pat

well let me chime in.... Dude was never FF because I trained with her every day for two years (so far) and I know her better than she knows herself, if I tell her to fetch she will fetch,it dosent matter what the object is bird, stick, ball,frisbee whatever when I say fetch she franticly begins looking for something to pick up.

With that said, I was dead set against e-collar the first year and a few times she would get distracted being a puppy and forget the task at hand, she has worn that collar every hunt since that first year and I have used it less than 10 times...

I am extreamly lucky that she was born with all the drive I could ever want, I dont need to punish my dog (or stimulate) her to get a required result, it also comes from spending time with the dog EVERY DAY for over two years.

when I breed Dude I will keep a male and if he has no drive and short attention span and generally a below average dog I may consider FF as a last resort before I give him to a loving family that dosent hunt.

if it is not needed then why do it??? How do you know there is a "problem to fix" if it hasent started... My truck runs just fine right now but your philosophy says I need a new transmission? "If it aint broke then dont fix it"

finally I dont have anything FF if you feel its needed on your dog. I do however feel it is a "shortcut" to an end, so if you dont have the time (and it takes alot) or comitment then FF is probably for you.

With this said... lets look at what trainers are up against generally... A dog gets dropped off and the owner says I'll see ya in a month...the trainer has to change that dog in a "SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME" so they have very few options at their disposal to motivate the dog other than pain.

I think this is why you see so many trainers defending it and preaching its praises, this philosphy in turn is sold to the dog owners (who dont have the time nor patience) who then also begin preaching the advantages to FF.

it is truly not needed for all dogs,

I think every retriever, for the most part, benefits (in a very big way) from FF. It is just another training tool. If you do not want to do it fine, but your dog would benifit from it. Very small % are not cut out for it, these dogs are probably better off as house pets.

Unfortunately Nogeese you don't understand the premise of force fetch. It's not to make a dog retrieve it's to enhance the retrieve and build mouth awareness. It's not used to "fix" a problem it's used to teach a dog that "fetch" is unconditional.

I'm glad that you feel that you don't need force fetch with your one dog. Good for You.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Just ask the dog.

Angie

I agree 110 % with Angie

I bet there was a 3 year period or so I never use the collar on Molly. Her temptation to break and creep is all I use it for, 1 correction beginning of season and she's back on track. Occasionally on casting she wants to do her own thing, and a correction is in order. I still say, a dog that has been thru FF, is hardwired to fetch for life, a dog that has not been FF'd fetches when they want to, this may be all the time for some dogs, but I still say FF would make this type dog better.

X2 Angie and Guy

Some people try to make it so complicated. First you elivate them and put a string on their toe;



Next you put something in their mouth;



Do you guys need more information?

That is amazing!!

Thanks a bunch. Don't tell bill he forgot to log off.

So you guys who don't force fetch, how do your dogs handle? Do they run blinds?, or do they just hunt-em up?

Robby

Angie This statement about FIXING a problem was in reguard to your first statement that said "there is now a problem to fix"
when you say "enhance a retrieve" its simple I shoot the bird and my dog brings that bird to me, I dont need to inflict pain on her for her to get that, and now to the comment of mouth awareness? How on earth is FF going to fix it?? Oh sorry FF dosent "fix" anything.

I truly hope you dont cantradict yourself while training peoples dogs as much as you do on this board

sure she will run blinds and hunt she takes hand signals, is a great pet and member of the family. and she was never FF

Good question. I suspect getting a dog to run long blind retrieves, force to pile is a must.

From a customers point of view I would want my dog FF.
I would not want him to spend months with a trainer and have him doing great when sent home. Then in the middle of the hunting season (or hunt test) he decides to retrive when or how he wants too. That would mean I either have to deal with it for the rest of the season, or send him back during the season.
I have seen dogs that were, and were not FF run fantastic retrieves. My point is if I'm paying a trainer I want the dog FF.
If I'm doing it on my own I might hold off on it.

Biigest difference I have seen in FF and non FF retrievers is hunting pheasants... You see a big difference when you been hunting all day. Nothing against non FF dogs just historically from what I have seen is more issues when they are really tired... And then there are the dove spitters.