good point but when hunting phesent and dove it is imperative to know the dogs limits and if a dog has been FF you could litterally run it to death, simply because you have suppressed the "off switch"

I watched first hand my dog die a slow and miserable death about 15 years ago from heat stroke (she was playing with the kids in the backyard for less than 30 min) ever since that time I have been HYPER SENSITIVE to dogs and heat.

our conditioning has ramped up the last few weeks so I can get her ready for the september heat it is also a good way to know how much they can take, right now it dosent take more than a dozen throws of a frisbee for her to get hot, once she cools down we do it again a few hours later.

I have two dogs both with a decent pedigree one of them was force fetched the other was not . Seeing the difference in the two dogs is night and day !! I see lots of GOOD DOGS that have been worked with every day for two year and when told to fetch a ball or frisbee they do that but when asked to go on their 5-6
300 + yard retrieve they look at you like your nuts . A dog that has been forced and trained to handle only has to be sent .

then why not FF the other one???

Your total lack of understanding of force fetch and it's use is more and more evident with every post.

Force Fetch is NOT USED TO TEACH A DOG TO RETRIEVE!!!

Look Nogeese,,, You're a guy that hunts and has a dog your thrilled with. You're not a dog trainer or pretend to be one. If you're happy with your dog,,, we're all happy with your dog. But to debate a dog training technique that you know nothing about or care to know anything about is a waste of everyone's time.

Angie

No geese the dog is 10 years old now . That's why if he was half that age I would do it in a heart beat !!!!!!!!! What I am trying to say is now that I understand and have seen the diffence it can make in a dog I will never own or train another dog that is not forced .

I don't have the vast experience of most on this thread but just a personal experience. I hunted my GSP for 2 seasons before FF. He was a good finder and steady on point but everything unraveled after the bird went down.

Finally decided to get him FF by a pro...made all the difference in the world. Not only was he retrieving to hand, but over all, he became a better hunter.

To the OP, if you are not competing with your dog, I'd say try one or two seasons before you FF if you have doubts.

CSF
Owning versatile dog I chose the later FF like you.
I wanted him to have the other aspects of quail hunting down before that much pressure was put on him.
Because we use him for duck and dove to, I see force to a pile started as soon as FF is finished. I miss him but the off season was the perfect time to have it done.

I understand completely, I don't use a dog for dove for this very reason, but pheasants a different story, season on my ranch doesn't start until December.

Conditioning being a given, you will still see a differance in FF and not.

Angie is pretty opinionated, sometimes to a fault but like she said if your happy with your good being non ff'd then that's all that matters, FF is a tough choice especially if your doing it yourself.

I personally will not own another hunting dog that's not ff'd. Just prefer the differance it makes

I know first hand that FF works.




























Blaze kept biting me on the ear and it was the only way I could get her to let go.

Nogeese this is not the first time you have tried to argue that FF doesn't work or is not worth it blah, blah, blah. The problem is you don't have a clue what you are talking about and the more you talk the more clear that becomes. You will be very hard pressed to find a pro-retriever trainer that does not FF. If they don't they are probably not worth their salt! Both of the pros that post to this forum will tell you they FF every dog that comes to them as does every other hunt test/field trial trainer. Do you know why they all do this? Because it produces a better dog. The proof is in the pudding!!

Nogeese is entitled to his own opinion so Let's not make it personal

Not trying to make anything personal at all. I think nogeese takes all this FF talk a little personal since his dog has not been FF. But it seems like everytime the subject comes up he is telling someone not to FF or that his dog retrieves without FF etc... I just think you should actually understand the process before you haul off and tell someone they should or shouldn't do it... The OP was asking about what age to FF and somehow once again nogeese has turned this into FF vs No FF argument. I am of the opinion that he isn't really schooled on the subject he is trying to talk about. I respect his opinion but I don't have to agree with it, and I am entitled to my own opinion. I'm glad he is happy with his dog.

im pretty thick skinned, I know my dog better than anyone else in the world, including her! and I know what is going on in her head 99% of the time, and as Angie said "I am happy with my dog"

I can also agree with angie that I am not a profesional trainer but I have trained 4 labs over the past 20+ years and each one has gotten progressivly better,(I think this has more to do with luck than anything else) so I am not a newbie to the subject I will also say that my dog hunted with 4 other dogs last season and ran circles around them (some ff some not) I was very proud of her but not boastful because I it does nothing for me to measure her against other peoples dogs, the only thing we have to measure is our improvement over the last hunt. This is second only to the two of us enjoying our time in the field I hunt with her more for her than me, and I dont feel I need to turn fun into work for her.

I have said before that if you feel FF is whats right for YOUR dog then by all means do it or have it done, however in my case, it was and is not needed.

Holly Moses I think you just buried yourself..4 dogs in 20 years..The place I was thrown into to learn was a un godly 20 dogs every two month OB FF program..I was there off and on for ten years I don‘t know what that comes out to and don‘t really count..and the others on here have been doing it longer than you or me..I think you need to rethink that statement..and let it go..You have one of the many dogs that does well without FF Lets all clap..I think you should just listen to what they have to say..Everyone might learn somthing

now I would like to bring light to your statement "20 dogs every two months" it would make me question the quality of product that gets turned out because you are saying that those dogs get 1/20th of your time as opposed to my dog getting 100% of my time, agreed I am not a trainer but according to your statement I should know my dog 20x better???

BTW nice website I guided for 7 years, I hunt for fun now Im too old for that stuff

Your absolutely correct..There was tremendous pressure on both dog and trainer. Did I know the dogs YES you can‘t train if you can‘t fig out the trainee .All the dogs were very well trained or the word would have spread and the volume would not have been there for all those years..He worked only on referrals back when I worked there and had NO website at that time.You were very hard pressed to even find his kennel name or address..It is hard to believe this but that’s the volume he had..It was just a plane Jane Obb and FF program..and business
was ah booming...Thanks..I'm 53 and don't think I'll ever be too old to do it

You're a meanie.

Only on Fridays and Mondays when someone is making a fool of themselves voicing how little they do know on a subject...

Angie

no I dont think she is mean she just has a very short fuse that is very fun to light from time to time, she seems to get very excited and loves to express her self percieved expertiese on any subject that has to do with dogs, I think its quite telling that someone that can get so worked up so quickly, is trying to make a living in a job that requires the patience of Jobe.

Angie B,
In regards to the statement you made:
"Force Fetch is NOT USED TO TEACH A DOG TO RETRIEVE!!!"

I ask the following of you out of genuine curiousity and desire to learn:
What to do with a dog (and I am not really talking about retrievers here)that shows no interest in retrieving...how do you bring HIM along?

Thanks,
Gary

Why do people think that you are teaching a dog to retrieve when you FF a dog..Any dog that chases a stick can retrieve..BUT will they hold onto that stick and come back with that one stick when someone throws a 50.00 steak in the water on there way back…
It has nothing to do with desire to retrieve your teaching the thing to HOLD onto that ONE stick that it will be running after..
I used a stick to simplify the thought pattern..So don't tell me you should'nt throw a stupid stick..LOL

What's all this fuss about?

So Force Fetching a dog, is not forcing a dog to fetch....okaaay, I think maybe I am confused and that could be why I haven't had a lot of luck through the years.

I repeat my question.

If you don't use force fetching to teach a dog that has little or no inclination to retrieve that it must retrieve when commanded to do so, then what DO you use?

It depends on the age of the dog and how high their prey drive is? Give us a specific example???

Angie