Here is the scenario;
My friend owns a ranch nearby and has a major hog problem, his nephew and two friends were dog hunting his ranch at his request.
The dogs left his ranch in pursuit of hogs and ran onto the neighbors ranch, where the nephew and friends also have permission to hunt.
The nephew followed the dogs on foot, the two friends took the truck around by county road to intercept and wait for the nephew.
While sitting in the truck a third neighbor where they did not have permission to hunt pulled up and asked what they were doing.
They told him and he informed them that if their dogs came across his place he would turn his pit bulls loose on them and kill them, then he left.
They could then hear the dogs coming in the distance so they left the truck and walked into the other ranch they had permission to hunt on to help the nephew deal with the caught hogs.
They knifed the hogs, left them in the field as they were simply doing hog damage control and then all walked back out to their vehicle.
When they arrived there was a game officer waiting for them, apparently called by the neighbor that had warned them even though they nor their dogs had stepped foot on his place.
The officer then gave them five citations.
Two for failure to have completed a hunters ed course, and all three a citation for hunting without a license.

I was under the impression that if a person was doing hog damage control for a landowner and was not keeping the meat that no license was needed, what exactly is correct.
My friend the rancher asked me for advice and I said I did not exactly know, but I knew where there were some people who would.
I did a search but could not find any old threads on the subject.
Could anyone help me out on this please so I know what to tell him.
Thanks.

I have heard this debate over this site and in conversation with many people including LEO and game wardens, and have heard about 50/50 on people's answers. The usually prevailing thought is better to be safe than sorry. I have heard the point of view, even supported by Tpwd booklet regarding depredation killing so I can reason with those that pick that side; however, Tpwd seems to rule more on te cover all side of needing a hunting liscence in the pursuit of harvesting any animal. This is a topic Tpwd needs to clarify publically ASAP. Also the neighbor seems like a quality @ $ $ clown since the boys never encroached upon his property.

Sounds like a question for the man in the dark green Ford pickup.

was answered with 5 citations. lol.

Unless you are the landowner, get a license. The GW did his job. Too many folks try to use the "Depredation" rule as an excuse. As you can see, it usually does not pay to try to work the system. Why didn't they have licenses anyway????

Good job GW!!

Bob I have no idea why they didn't, that would be their business would it not?
Personally I think it is completely [censored] and anyone that wants to kill a pig in this state should be able to do so with or without a license.
They were acting on behalf of the landowners in dealing with feral animals that are causing destruction to his personal property.
They are not keeping the meat, nor selling the live hogs.
The state should be giving those boys a handshake and paying them a bounty for doing Texas a favor.


And again it is just me personally but I think that the GW was a douchebag.

A $30 license is probably alot cheaper then 5 fines. I'm goin to guess your friends didnt want to take the time to take the hunters ed class, so they tried to find a way around it and got caught. Now your blameing the GW for doing his job.

property lines - the #1 reason Texas will ALWAYS have a hog problem...

we have them hogs don't!

That is correct. So why didn't the kids just show the warden their letter granting permission for the eradication of problem hogs on the neighbor's property? What, no letter? Well surely they called the landowner to come out and explain that they had permission, right? No? Then they need to get the owner to appear in court or provide a notorized affidavit. Actually, they will undoubtedly need them for both properties on which they were hunting since they don't own the lands themselves.

The smart thing to do would be to get a license and avoid a lot of the hassles. Of course, they had never bothered to get a license because they hadn't taken the hunter safety course. Bob is right. The game warden was just doing his job and from the sounds of it, doing it properly.



Yeah, I just hate it when my neighbors think that somebody is doing something wrong on my property and call the law to help make sure things are safe and secure. I just hate it when my neighbors have my best interest at heart. And gosh, the neighbor was RIGHT. The kids were breaking the law, multiple laws.

I was told by one of our local GW's that if the hunter is protecting property or crops, whether yours or someone elses, then no license was needed; and if you don't need a license, then it would stand to reason you don't have to take a hunters safety course, since the course is simply a prerequisite for the purchase of the license. Just like any other gov't or state agency, one can never get a consistent answer to a simple question. I would think that as long as the landowner can vouch for you, and your intentions of the hunt, that the citations would be dismissed. But that's just common sense talking...and we know how much common sense there is nowadays. This is a perfect example of how one spiteful loudmouth with a phone can cause problems. Perhaps it would have been best to have written permission to show the GW, but by the same token, if the guy would have called his neighbor to find the truth instead of whining to the GW prematurely, this couldhave been avoided altogether.

Let me get this straight. They are "hunting" (whether it be by knife, gun, bow or whatever) for pigs with no "hunting" license and they have not taken a hunter ed course? And they are in the "hunting" business. Is it only me that sees a very ironic deal here!

If you are "hunting" (hunting in season, out of season, game animal or non game animal), you MUST have a hunting license. If you are in the age slot where hunter ed is required and you do not take it, you should get a ticket. That's why hunter ed is REQUIRED! You might learn something in the class!

Sorry, but it's their own fault for not understanding "hunting" rules and regs, since they are in the "hunting" business, after all.

If you have no proof that you are depredation hunting for another at his request on his property, then you better have a license or plan to go to court to prove your permission. So since the hunters didn't have such proof, they were required to have a license to hunt. That would have required having had the hunter safet course. It is possible that all wil be thrown out in court, but the citations by the GW are valid for what he encountered for the time.



No quite. You don't have to have a hunting license for killing depredating hogs on your property or on another's property at their invitation/permission - stated here as landowners or their agents....
http://pcwp.tamu.edu/media/7025/feral-hog-laws-and-regulations-in-texas.pdf

Killing depredating hogs counts only for killing them. If you plan to use for food or trophy, a license is required because you are then food or trophy hunting.

Yeah, I just hate it when my neighbors think that somebody is doing something wrong on my property and call the law to help make sure things are safe and secure. I just hate it when my neighbors have my best interest at heart. And gosh, the neighbor was RIGHT. The kids were breaking the law, multiple laws. [/quote]

I didn't get the impression the neighbor was a civilian hero looking out for his neighbor's property. Instead he seems like quite a jerk telling some young fellas he will sic his pit bulls on their dogs if they come on his property. If he was concerned about trespassing, I just think it could have been handled better.

Double Naught thank you very much for that link, that is exactly what I was needing to show him.
We both thought that was correct but it is good to see it in print.
Bottom line is that the kids were doing absolutely nothing wrong and they should have no problem beating the tickets in court.

Pages 26 &27 in the Outdoor annual;

Every hunter (including out-of-state hunters) born on or after Sept. 2, 1971, must successfully complete a Hunter Education Training Course, or be accompanied* while hunting. Minimum age of certification is 9 years of age.
If you were born on or after September 2, 1971 and you are:
• under 9 years of age, you must be accompanied* while hunting.
• age 9 through 16, you must successfully complete a hunter education course, or you must be accompanied* while hunting.
• age 17 and over, you must successfully complete a hunter education course; or purchase a “Hunter Education Deferral” and you must be accompanied* while hunting.
Please note that some federally controlled areas require all hunters using that site to have hunter education certification. In Texas, this includes Corps of Engineers property and most military reservations. Be sure to check with the specific area prior to going hunting.
Hunter Education Deferral (cost: $10) Allows a person 17 years of age or older who has not completed a hunter education program to defer completion for up to one year. A deferral may only be obtained once and is only valid until the end of the current license year. A person who has been convicted or has received deferred adjudication for violation of the mandatory hunter education requirement is prohibited from applying for a deferral. Take the course by August 31 of the current license year and receive a $5 discount. The one-time Hunter Education Deferral is available at license vendors and went into effect September 1, 2004.
* Accompanied means: While hunting, by a person who is at least 17, who is licensed to hunt in Texas, who has passed hunter education or is exempt (born before Sept. 2, 1971), and you must be within normal voice control. Proof of certification or deferral is required to be on your person while hunting. Note: Certification is not required to purchase a hunting license.
--------------------------

Page #54 in the Outdoor annual, definitions;
Hunt:
To capture, trap, take, or kill, and includes any attempt to capture, trap, take, or kill.
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Page #73 in the Outdoor annual
Exotic animal refers to grass-eating or plant-eating, single-hoofed or cloven-hoofed mammals that are not indigenous or native to Texas and are known as ungulates, including animals from the deer and antelope families that landowners have introduced into this state. Includes, but is not limited to feral hog, Aoudad sheep, Axis deer, Elk, Sika deer, Fallow deer, Blackbuck antelope, Nilgai antelope, and Russian boar. Exotic fowl refers to any avian species that is not indigenous to this state, including ratites (emu, ostrich, rhea, cassowary, etc.).
There are no state bag or possession limits or closed seasons on exotic animals or fowl on private property. It is against the law to:
• Hunt an exotic without a valid hunting license.
• Hunt an exotic on a public road or right-of-way.
• Hunt an exotic without the landowner's permission.
• Possess an exotic or the carcass of an exotic without the owner's consent.
--------------------

click here ---> TPWD feral hog FAQ
scroll down to "How do I hunt feral hogs"

The GW did his job.

Better have rabies vaconations on dogs or they will get more tickets

You guys would be right if they had actually been hunting, but they were not.
They were doing depredation work and killing hogs that had ben causing damage to the owners property, which is completely legal to do.
Not keeping meat, not taking any prisoners, just sticking them and leaving them.
Thats not hunting, thats killing problem hogs.
Big difference in case any of you care to get a clue.

if they get a written note (notarized now though) from the landowner the judge might let them go based on the depradation.

If they get it, it better have a date before the fines.

Were any of them carrying a firearm?

don't know what diff that would make, but no.

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Typical example of the tendency for government to grow and for personal liberties to be lost. I can remember when no hunting license was required to hunt on your own property. I can also remember when no hunting license was required when hunting in the county where you lived.

It doesn't seem these guys should have been ticketed. If they would try I think they could get the tickets dismissed.

You mean these boys run their own hog dogs, and never fired one shot at a deer, dove, hog, or varmint all season? Sounds fishy to me. Why haven't they had hunters Ed? My 9 year old will be taking it before this dove season.

I just took this class with my son this past summer. This is what was told to us by the instructor and the TPWD annual regulation book backs it up. It is in there.
You do not need a license to kill depredation hogs, if you are the landowner or the landowner's agent. Also, no where does it state that you must leave them where they lay. You can take the meat with you. This was fully discussed in our class.
So in this case, the guys killin the hogs were the landowner's agent. They can go before the JP and with the landowners involved being present or having a letter of permission, these charges should be dropped. And for the record, if you look on page 25 of the "Outdoor Annual" and I quote:
Exceptions: a hunting license is not required to hunt the following:
Coyotes, if the coyotes are attacking, about to attack, or have recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowl.
Depredating feral hogs, if a landowner(resident or non-resident) or landowner's agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner's land.
Fur bearing animals, if the hunter possesses a trapper's license or if the fur bearing animals are causing depredation.