Agreed, not saying nutrition isn't important. It's of course very important.

You keep feeding and planting to improve fawn and adult deer survival which means you raise more bucks to a mature age. This will give you a better chance of seeing just what your genetics can do. What you do with those deer from a hunting standpoint is what has shaped or will shape the appearance of the deer herd where you are hunting.

This is all I was trying to say. Gotta go boys, have a good weekend.

I'd rather work with Genetics than nutrition. The strong will survive and the weak will (you know). I've seen the deer on big ranches good nutrition doesn't always make big deer out of poor deer. Poor deer pass poor genes. They will see some improvement but they will be older deer when it shows. I've seen young deer with little to eat and drought conditions looking great. This is because genetics are already established. Deer will find what they need to survive, we just hope its on our places and keeps them around. Deer have been around a long time before the hunter started feeding them. Nutrition helps but why waste money feeding deer that have reached thier max growth.

Your correct in a way...but keeping them fed is not changing or improving genetics...its simply letting a deer reach or i should say trying to reach his max potential...this not changing anything about the deer..its just keeping them as healthy as possible with less effort on their side.

maybe, for me anyway, it just goes back to the fact that i like to think that i can have an affect on the deer on my land. of course i have no scientific evidence to back me, but i like to think that supplemental feeding and management will eventually lead to a healthier herd with bigger bucks, which is why i spend time and money out there.

at least thats what i tell my wife, which is why i refuse to accept that all my east texas bucks are going to be backet 8's, "cuz their daddy was," no matter what i do.

With the drought last year a lot of deer have moved around. This will help genetics in some places and hurt in other. There are big deer showing up everywhere. Letting deer get older is how you find out how good the genetics really are. Feeding helps but age will tell the tale. I've been blessed we have good genetics in the area we hunt. Our problems stem from our neighbors itchy trigger fingers.

I guess your talking to me?

If you want a bigger brisket deer you would find does and bucks with big briskets and continue to cross breed. You can only do that because the big brisket is a expressed gene... The antler gene in a doe is not expressed. Period..only way you can track it is put her and offspring in a pen and track.

As far as the does INFLUENCE on her offsprings antlers yes, her upraiseing and nutrition are the main influence on its body condition and antlers from birth to 2.5 years old IMO

I will also say that I believe some deer in some herds have the genetics to be what are called "swing deer". By this I mean they can raise or lower the overall antler quality and score based on nutrition and/or age. I think they are genetically imprinted the same way that a great buck is genetically imprinted to just get bigger each and every year till his age gets him.

They go hand in hand. One without the other will never amount too much. Genetics professor at A&M did tell us you can do more with average nutrition and above average genes, than you can do with above average nutrition and average genes.

It can be seen in pen deer that if you have the right doe, she can produce a better offspring bred to any buck. Just the same as some bucks can produce better with any doe. Take that buck this buck bred to the previously mentioned "super" doe and the sky is the limit. When all this falls into place and they produce a buck fawn in a wet year that lives his life to a maturea age on the best nutrition available you get a buck on monstrous or world record quality. It does not happen every season or we would have a new record book buck killed every year. That is how rare it is.

I concur but you don't know her from any other doe out side a pen.

I mentioned the pen in that qoute

I know you mentioned it. What I was stating that it can happen in a pen with DNA pedigreed genetics more often than the random chance in the wild. But it can happen in the wild or record on a state level or national level would not be eclipsed and would stand forever. Genetics to raise great deer are in every herd it is what is done to enhance or surpress them by hunting that dictates how often record book bucks occur.

I say age and nutrition. Case in point… Texas had its worst drought on record in 2011. In most areas of the State the does where in such bad shape heath wise, they stopped producing adequate milk for their fawns. This was causing the does to abandon their fawns and the fawn mortality rate was staggering. Last year’s fawn loss will be noticeable in a few years.

How many generations of 2 year old 8's are going to have to die in your quest of the Super Breeder!!!! The insanity has to stop!!








Oh and I concur

check mark next to nutrition for me.

Your thinking only of your quest for a 160 class 8 pointer is all. Take those blinders off already

since our genetics are so horrible, I'd be happy shooting 140-150" 8pts every year.

I would be too.

I'm wondering why you would shoot a 140-150" 2yo 8pt.

Whoever said that I would or ever have

b/c they have to be 10pt for you not to hit them on the head with a hammer at that age.

A 120-130" 2 yr old 8 point would meet my criteria for a keeper till 3 fo sho.

picky, picky, picky

Now at 3 if he was the size it would be picky, picky, picky