This is a red Dudley Labrador puppy from my last litter. He lives in Dallas and his owners sent me the pic. They are real happy with their pup.

small world, thats my brothers pup in the pic, very good lookin pup!

small world, thats my brothers pup in the pic, very good lookin pup!

My 9 month old yellow labs dam is red. Good looking pup.

You are calling these dogs red Dudley; what does the Dudley stand far and does it mean something other than yellow? I always thought labs came in Black, Chocolate and Yellow. Just wondering

Awesome pup!

actually its proven that dudleys are quite a bit smarter than regular labs

Fox Red is a shade of yellow
Dudley is a yellow lab that carriers a chocolate pigment

that is why it has the liver colored nose, lips and eye rims

Your thoughts are right. Currently, red or red dudley isn't a recongnized color, by the AKC and UKC. That's a damn good looking pup though and if they keep coming out looking like that one, it won't belong before they do recognize it.

That explains the color and I must agree; he is a very nice looking pup and most likely will be a color included in the labs in the future. thanks for your answer.

That is because they have chocolate genes

Seriously, that is a really good looking pup.

Come on guys, everyone knows that blacks are superior.

(this is Pepper)

you know what they say.....once you go black you never go back!
LOL!!!

Genetically, "RED" is yellow. That's why they are not registerable separately. They are the same. A red coat is created by phaeomelanin, which is more intense and dense in a red coat than in a yellow coat. However, the coloring of both the yellow and the red coat is controlled by phaeomelanin. Black and chocolate coats are created by eumelanin.

RED is the ORIGINAL yellow for Labs. When the dogs were brought here from the UK, Americans didn't like the deeper yellow so they began to breed for the lighter shades. Eventually, the 'red' Lab was all but lost here in the US.

Back in the 1980's a renewed interest in the red arose and dogs such as Balrion King Frost, Wynfaul Tabasco and Red Alert were instrumental in bringing it back into the gene pool.

So, there never was a 'red' lab and a 'red' lab is really a yellow lab... just with more concentrated phaeomelanin.

A RED DUDLEY is simply just like any other dudley - a yellow coat on a chocolate dog. Only on the red dudley, the coat has more phaeomelanin. What causes the dudley (pink nose, paw pads, lips & skin) is a dilution factor. It is the same dilution that causes a black dog's skin and coat to be diluted to chocolate - it's the double recessive on the "B" allele, or bb for a chocolate. There is no such thing as a 'dudley' coloring because it is simply a variation of yellow.

TRUE FOX RED is a yellow dog with a lot of phaeomelanin in his coat and NOT diluted. So, a black dog with a yellow coat. This dog will have black points (nose, lips, skin, pawpads.) Rusty (imported British line, pictured below) is a good example of a true fox red dog.

I hope this helps make everything clear as mud. I hate to see folks all confused about color. It's simple genetics, but it gets so misconstrued.

Also, color has NOTHING to do with intelligence or behavior - those traits are controlled on completely different genes.

Thanks, IronSpikeLabs...it's early, but I've truly learned something today!!

And to think, I wrote that at 4:00 am! lol... It's duck season, I keep really weird hours...

Great info and Lab photo Iron Spike!

Thanks for the info Iron Spike. Is my dog a Red Dudley or a Red Fox? Thanks

He looks fox red with 'saddling.' That's another variation, it makes the dog darker on ears, top of head, back & sides, lighter on belly & legs Can't see real clearly, but the paw pads look dark, he has black lips, muzzle (below nose) and around his eyes. And his eyes look dark, not muted (green, grey, blue, etc.) Don't be fooled by a pink nose - yellow dogs with black tips will often develop a pink nose after 2 years of age or older. It's called "snow nose" or "winter nose." Sometimes it darkens in the summer, sometimes it just stays pink.

thanks

Ran a google search to get you a picture of snow nose and found this great write up on coat color by Woodhaven Labs:
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/yellow-pigment.html

Regardless...that is another good looking red dog.

Absolutely! I have always loved that color - I think it makes for a handsome dog.

You (Iron Spike) are very knowlegable in labs and color; what about White and silver. Not trying to confuse the issue but seems that labs come in many colors. None the less thsy are wonderful dogs.

Lot of good factual information in this thread. Thank you.

Oy, you would ask... OK, the 'white' Lab is just another yellow. All yellow Labs are yellow due to a double recessive 'E' genetic or 'ee.' The E only affects coat, not hide, so keep that in mind. So, now you have a basic yellow dog and let's assume that the yellow coat is on a black hided dog (black points, because that dog is NOT double recessive at the B. If he were double recessive at the B (bb), all hide color AND COAT would be diluted and you'd have a chocolate under a yellow coat, which, as you saw before, is a dudley. For the purposes of learning how we get a white dog with a black nose, let's not use a dudley.)

OK, so back to the black dog in a yellow coat. His genetics so far are either BB or Bb (black hide) and ee (has to be ee to have a yellow coat.) Now, to further affect, the 'E', another locus, the 'A' comes into play and it determines where and to what extent, the yellow will show up (I referred to this in an earlier post as saddling, or shading.) Depending on whether or not the 'A' is homozygous (either two recessive or two dominant) the yellow coat color, or the phaeomelanin will be increasingly diluted or blocked. An 'aa' genetic has no dilution whereas 'AA', phaeomelanin is almost or completely blocked. This produces a CREAM colored Lab - little to no phaeomelanin or red pigment in the coat. So now we have a cream dog with black points.

So what about the white? Well, there is yet another locus, the "C" which determines concentration of the color, whatever it is. So, in this case, the color is red (remember, phaeomelanin produces red, not yellow pigment.) And if there is a homozygous "C" (CC) you will get a heavy concentration of red. On the other extreme, if you have a recessive at the C locus (c-ch), the concentration is totally diluted and NOW, you have a white dog. But first, the other loci, the E and the A, must be set up genetically as described above.

Remember too, that a 'white' coated dog can still be a BLACK dog underneath the white coat. He will have black points because E, A & C only affect the coat. Only B affects the hide and coat. BB or Bb is black and bb is chocolate. Whew! I need to take a break before I explain the silver!

I had a black lab as a kid and thought I would never own another color.... but I am now stuck on the dudlys... best dog I have ever had, I know color dosent mean squat.

except that the lighter a lab is the smarter they are

Awwwwwww man, don't tell everybody that... I'm about to have a litter of reds! lol It all comes down to "What color muzzle do you want your duck coming back in?"

Lots of neat information here. Thanks for explaning coat/skin colors, I'm enjoying the read!

so then a white dudly and a red dudly would make a bunch of yellow?????

Iron Spike you sound like a walking book of knowledge on labs; I really appreciate your time and the information. You sound like someone I could talk to and maybe even share an adult beverage with. thanks again db

IronSpike...while you are at it, what can you tell us about the white marking on the chest or pads of the feet that show up sometimes?

I got this one ISP...that is dry ice...just like they do paint horses sometimes

Seriously, I don't have a clue but she will I'm sure.

It's just a recessive gene that shows up from time to time. They are acceptable on the AKC breed standard

I was hoping maybe a little more history behind it and a litte more in depth info.

The reason I ask is that my dog has faint white hairs on 2 of his pads. His dam was aptly named "Star" for a white star on her chest. My dog's littermates have some marking on them, but some came out solid black. Just curious about the genetics and what I could expect should I ever decided to breed my dog.

I know, pretty boring. My dog has white pads on 3 of his 4 feet. There's really not much of a story to it. Just one of those genetic things, like trying to figure out why two short people have a tall kid. They geness matched up.

I dunno... I'm still trying to figure out these mysterious white markings that suddenly appeared on my BLF after eight years of being solid black:

looks like paint

Yes ma'am!!!! It is!!!! We were doing some painting when Mia realized she had a built in paint brush! She painted the walls, some furniture and several other dogs!