I understand the point you are trying to make. Here's mine, it's difficult for me to respect you or your opinion when you generalize or lump groups of good honest law abiding citizens together and label them along with me as idiots without ever meeting me. You know what they say about assumptions. In other words it's hard to take you seriously or respect you. You weaken your argument overall for me. Not to mention it's considered rude whether in person, or behind the safety of your keyboard at home.

I understand what you're saying as well, and perhaps I worded my response a little harshly, so, maybe a little additional background is in order.

The bottom line to me is that if you are going to carry, it must be because you feel that you may need to use the weapon for protection. When you carry, you are taking on an extraordinary responsibility, for the safety of yourself, your family and for innocent folks around you. You have the power of life and death resting in a holster on your hip. Given that, it seems to me rather odd that anyone would even consider consuming mind altering products while thinking that you might be in a hostile situation later. Make no mistake. Alcohol is a mind altering product that reduces your inhibitions and affects your decision making from very early on in the process, even if you're still able to "walk a straight line" or otherwise pass a "field sobriety test." If you do drink, EVEN ONE, and you are subsequently involved in a hostile engagement, your judgment will be questioned, in the criminal proceedings by the prosecutor, by the grand jury, by the judge, and by the jury, and likewise in your civil trial where you are sued for damages by the person you engaged, or his widow and children. Given the risks we undertake and the responsibilities we assume by carrying, if we believe we may need to make the fateful decision to draw and discharge our weapon, it seems to me to represent an extraordinarily poor lack of judgment to drink and carry. Even if it's only one drink with dinner, that smell on your breath will be enough to hang a verdict on you. You carry because you want to protect yourself and your family. Why run the risk of jail or a huge civil judgment? How would that affect the very family you are trying to protect? Why even put yourself in that situation? I can understand the whole "I carry to protect myself and others." I CANNOT understand someone who would risk all of that in order to have "a drink with dinner." Given the risks, I'd get my wings to go and have the beer at home...

And, given the vagueness of the definitions contained in the statute, I'm not so sure that someone who drinks while carrying is "law abiding." May be good and honest. May be otherwise a great person. But, I just cannot see any drinking while carrying, while hunting, etc., as a good idea.

Well . . . . . . ipscshooter . . . . . . . don't know what to say exactly. Not sure if I want to admit it or not, but you've got me to thinking. When you put it that way . . . well . . . gonna think on it some more for sure.

I will admit now though, I was thinking less about liability and more about my perceived "rights"? Not sure if that's the right word?

I too am a father and a husband. Sometimes I think about protecting them and myself today. Maybe I forget sometimes about later, like years later?

Thanks for toning it down too. Has a lot more impact, on me at least.

Thinking,
J

As Uncle Ben told Peter Parker... "With great power comes great responsibility."

Alcohol affects your judgment. It affects your mood. It affects how you perceive and react to the actions of others. It affects your visual acuity. It affects your reaction time. And, generally, when you are drinking you are around others who are drinking, and who also have their judgment, mood, and perception affected. Among those people, not everyone is going to be exercising the same "I'm only gonna have one" control that you might be capable of exercising, and not everyone is a "happy" drinker. Too much risk. Too much to lose. Too much opportunity to permanently affect your life and the life of others. If you're packing, I think it's best to keep ALL of your wits about you.

And, again... Sorry for using the word "idiot." I guess it was ill advised shorthand for a much more complex set of concepts.

I believe you are paranoid and are over thinking it. Good for you being the family man but judging someone for having a dinner drink and talking all that mess about the smell of alcohol on your breath is

Just because you're not capable of handling a gun and a beer doesn't mean the rest of us are. It's not like we get amnesia.

Sounds like somebody gets drunk off 1 beer and acts a fool

I am a Texan, hunting, beer drinking, cowboying go hand in hand, I guess I will take my chances but all those are part of my daily routine. Long live Texas, long live cowboys, and I hope us beer drinkers live a long life too.!!! I will do it again tomorrow.

Am I the only one thats drank beer and dove hunted?

Just a question.

And, I think you don't know what you're talking about. When you get sued after a shooting, you can bet your alcohol consumption will be an issue. It certainly is if you're an HPD officer involved in an off-duty shooting... An officer recently was involved in a shooting while he attempted to break up a fight outside a bar. He had had a drink. Here's HPD's rule:

An HPD general order states that "officers shall not exercise police authority while under the influence of intoxicants whether on or off duty."

The order states that being under the influence of alcohol is defined as "having any measurable concentration of alcohol in one's blood, breath, or urine."

The HPD rule fits within the provisions of the Texas Penal Code definition of "intoxicated."

I do while hog hunting.

It has nothing to do with being "not capable." I've already apologized for using the term "idiot," twice. Read my follow up posts for further explanation.

I used to drink. Probably at least as much as those who are now rendering these asinine "not capable" or "gets drunk off one beer and acts a fool" insults. Having practiced law for 28 years, I can assure you that anyone who thinks that alcohol consumption won't be an issue in the criminal and civil proceedings following a shooting by a CCW holder is the fool. I spent several years working for a firm that made quite a lot of money suing folks who decided to drive because they "thought they could handle it" but couldn't.

I was talking about driving around the ranch hunting, and so were you.

I don't drink and carry.

I was talking about both.

I knew that, I just think that there's nothing wrong with a couple while hunting. I'm not an idiot that gets trashed and stumbles around. But if I'm sitting in a blind waiting on a pig there's no problem.

for me...personally...when i drink..i do not touch firearms. When i hunt..i do not drink. And i would certainly not drink while im carrying a firearm. Im with ipsscshooter on this. Seems very irresponsible to consume any mind altering products and mix them with guns. Thats a recipe for mistakes and disaster. I have personally witnessed a good honest person who is responsible with firearms make a mistake that almost resulted in injury or death while drinking and hunting.

It is now my position that I will not drink and hunt....and will not hunt with others who drink and hunt. This is solely my opinion and choice to do so.

So let me ask this. What if you have no chl. Pistol out of sight, rifle in back seat, and are under .08?

Keep in mind that the statute doesn't say that you must be over .08 to be "intoxicated." .02, with beer on your breath, and a bad attitude, can get you a free ride...

If stopped, it would be very wise to be very polite. Having a firearm in your vehicle is not illegal. Just be sure the officer is aware of it, and be careful about sudden movements...

Short version: big grey area that's subject to interpretation of the law by officer hopefully not later by jury and prosecuting attorney.

Longer version: Have to say I've switched over to the dark side on this one. ipscshooter is right (and seems like an all around good guy too). Don't worry about the earlier comment either, I think I was being a little overly sensitive probably anyway .

Anyway, it all comes down to your liability (what can be proved in court) if something bad went down. Your judgement can be impaired and you can be far from intoxicated (legal version). You may not believe your judgement is impaired, but that does not matter to the officer, lawyers, judge, and jury. You may have the legal right to have a very small amount of alchohol and still have a firearm in your car (Texas castle law is in your favor). A lawyer could probably make that arguement for you and win, probably, but not absolutely.

But here's the sticky ugly side of that whole deal. If you had to use that gun in self defense that night, or what you perceived to be self defense (your life was truly in danger) you could be opening a can of worms that could last the rest of your life. If you ever had to use that gun, it's not like getting pulled over for speeding. You'd be there for hours, maybe all night? There would be a ton of questions to answer. They would need to know exactly what happened, who was involved, where were you coming from, where were you going to. Those could eventually come around to: have you had anything to drink tonight? There it would be, in black and white, on the police report. That would probably force them to make a determination of your mental condition at the time of the shooting and they would have to do a field sobriety test. They would probably then want to take you to do a blood alcohol level test too (to cover their own butts). You'd probably have to go in after a few days and make a statement. There could be an investigation. Everything next is very hypothetical, but not impossible. Grand Jury and/or Civil Suit by the family of whoever you killed? Possibly being questioned on the stand a year later trying to explain to a family and their lawyer why exactly you felt that in that second your life was definately in danger and if you did not act the way you did, you wouldn't be there right now and it would be you in the casket. And you know that lawyer would bring up how much alchohol was in your system, how long had it been, and how you couldn't of possibly have made the "right" descision.

Not worth it for me. I agree, get the wings or fajita's to go and have the margarita at home.

Point is your getting into a grey area that is not well defined. It's probably legal but ill advised. Not because you can't handle the gun or your liquor, but because a crafty attorney and grieving family could make you pay dearly for a very long time, worst cast scenario of course.

That doesn't even mention the guilt I'd feel anyway. Why add to it?

Not worth it to me. Thanks for the good advice ipscshooter, if you see me at Chuy's this weekend ordering beef fajita's, it'll be with a Dr. Pepper. <-- (rootbeer)

If you're ever in Houston, the place to go for GREAT fajitas is Goode Company. Just south of 59 on Kirby. So tender, you probably don't even need teeth to chew 'em...

Funny your from Houston, I grew up in Friendswood!!

Next time we're in town: You buy fajita's , I'll buy the beer (wink wink). LOL

Rather over-think it now than regret it later (didn't always think that way either). Not worth it for me, really! And as for judging me, reading back through the text and looking it over with fresh eyes I really don't believe he was "judging" anyone. Just has an opinion and is giving his 2 cents. In my case I've bought into it.

I've reached the point in my life where I find myself thinking a lot more about risk and liability and a lot less about having fun in that one brief moment. Maybe I'm getting old, or at least older. So be it, I'm ok with that.

So what happens when your at home and that burglar comes in and you confront him? Do you still have the same answer if you had your beers at home?

Nope, totally different scenario. As long as you have the legal right to buy and own guns (like no felony convictions, etc . . . . ). Texas Castle Doctrine allows you to defend your home, your property, your life, and your family's lives. Your also allowed to drink all you want on your own property as long as you are not creating a disturbance to the public around your home (like wild parties or running naked in your front yard).

When I took my CHL class some similar cases were talked about because most of us wanted clarification on the castle laws and what we could or could not do. I clearly remember my instructor saying that if you broke into his home that he would unload a clip on you, and then reload, period. You are allowed to defend your home from intruders with deadly force, and allowed to drink. And yes, I believe that's at the same time. It's when your out in public that it gets dicey. IMHO, p.s. not a lawyer!! I could be way off . . . . just stating my opinion.

Also, according to my instructor, most cases of home invasions, burglaries, robberies, and break-in's in Texas where a homeowner defends himself there is an investigation to document exactly what happens. But civil lawsuits are thrown out. I think the reason is in a case where a shooting occurs on public property you both have the right to be there at the same time. In my house, a thief has no right to be there and does not have permission to be there. He also commited a crime to get in. The family would have no way to prove that their misunderstood (theiving) son had the right to be standing in your home that night, especially if he had anything on him that could be used as a weapon. Again, just what I've heard and my own opinion. If you really want an answer, go talk to your lawyer.

I guess what I'm saying is this:

Having a few beers and shooting someone in Chuy's parking lot does not equal having a few beers and shooting an intruder at 3 am in your living room. That's comparing apples to oranges.