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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: JCB]
#2076284
02/01/11 12:10 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,399
Texas Heat
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Guess it's good you noticed that before slamming it in a mag LOL
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: mahoro_su]
#2076449
02/01/11 12:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Tactical_Smurf
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On most guns, its hard on the Extractor and Firing pin.
The only caution I warn folks about using it, is make sure you clean after shooting before storage. Because they use very dirty primers and powder which can cause problems in the long run. why on the firing pin? due to cheap primers? Cheap and some of them are really hard I have replaced a few firing pins on ones at the shop, but those guys have also purchased CASES plural of the stuff. Like I and several others have mentioned its fine to shoot just clean it afterwards, at the very worst after 2K rounds you replace a Extractor and firing pin 20.00 and your back in buisness and still saved money.
 Certified Glock Armorer - Because my Sig Sauers Don't Fail. "We are prepared to give all of our Tomorrows, for a single child's Today" - Kidnap Rescue Operator
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#2103958
02/09/11 05:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 253
pollan
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
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I`ve been an AR 15 / M 16 Armorer for a long time, and the sealer that they use on the steel cases will get hot and stick to the inside of the chamber, and sometimes causes your weapon to not feed. Not to mention it is a PAIN IN THE A$$ to clean up. Use a lot of solvent in the chamber and let it sit for a while, and then use the heck out of a chamber brush to clean it up good. Shouldn`t have to much problem with it if you really clean your weapon after use. If you do break an extractor or firing pin it`s not to expensive to replace. Only takes a couple minutes to replace those two parts.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: pollan]
#2104125
02/09/11 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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^^^ I agree and although contrary to popular belief most steel cased ammo WAS laqure sealed and some STILL are most are getting away from it.
One thing I would suggest , really for any AR owner, is to keep a spare fireing pin and expractor handy. I have a spare bolt , firing pin, and retainer pin in the grip of several of the ARs I use the most. That being said Ive only ever need an extractor sping at it was just one time.
I have seen some top of the line rifles that wouldnt feed 3-4 rounds of steel and would constantly stick in the chamber to teh point the extractor would tear the lip off the case trying to extract it...
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: JCB]
#2104199
02/09/11 06:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 220
Dacotua
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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It's Russian.
----
On the topic, the REASON why you shouldn't shoot Steel Cased Ammo out of your gun is the following.
1. Steel in the cases does not expand like brass. Hence when you pull the trigger, you will get blowby. About 1/4 to 1/2 of your chamber will get the blow back from the gass and it will get coated with carbon.
2. Because of the blow by, your accelerating throat wear and now your wearing your chamber.
3. If you don't clean your chamber, the carbon can/will stick to shells sooner or later. Causing you to get a "STUCK" round in the chamber.
Overall, I only shoot brass in my good guns. The reason why russian ammo is dirty, is due to the fact that it gets blowby and coats your chamber, where as if you had brass, you wouldn't have that issue.
The only steel cased ammo I shoot are in a AK and SKS, they both were designed for that ammo.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Dacotua]
#2104273
02/09/11 07:12 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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I shoot the heck out of steel case, in all my AR's, FAL and AK. If your gun won't shoot it the gun is not running correctly. Most of the time the gas port needs opening up, because its not getting enough gas. If your gun is set up properly it should run steel like a raped ape.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104421
02/09/11 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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If your gun won't shoot it the gun is not running correctly. Thats some of the more incorrect info Ive heard come from you in a long time...
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104450
02/09/11 08:13 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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If your gun won't shoot it the gun is not running correctly. Thats some of the more incorrect info Ive heard come from you in a long time... ITs a fact. Properly setup will run steel case. Start shooting regularly and you will see. If it doesn't run steel, its undergassed etc. We do wolf reliability packages about 5 times a week. Opening gas port or unclogging it, extractor upgrade etc.
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 08:20 PM.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104475
02/09/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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Im going to adress this real slow so you can keep up.
1. If your BCG is being pushed all the way back from teh gas coming down the gas tube and the rim of the case is torn off because the extractor did its job, how do you get that the port hole needs to be opened up to allow more gas to go down the tube ? The BCG is cycling just fine , the case getting stuck in the chamber that causes the problm.
2. If a rifle cycles 100% of the time and ejected the spent case 100% with brass cased ammo, why would cycling be any different with steel ?
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104481
02/09/11 08:22 PM
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Joined: May 2009
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DallasShootingSupplies
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Im going to adress this real slow so you can keep up.
1. If your BCG is being pushed all the way back from teh gas coming down the gas tube and the rim of the case is torn off because the extractor did its job, how do you get that the port hole needs to be opened up to allow more gas to go down the tube ? The BCG is cycling just fine , the case getting stuck in the chamber that causes the problm.
2. If a rifle cycles 100% of the time and ejected the spent case 100% with brass cased ammo, why would if be any different with steel ?
Real slow so I can keep up? Bet I shoot more a week than you do in months. Your scenario would indicate a dirty/fouled chamber.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104524
02/09/11 08:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,910
luv2brode
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getting interesting
i shhot mainly steel and have yet to have a single issue
i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104533
02/09/11 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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The fact that you shoot more than me or the biggest badest operator in the valley doesnt mean your description of the problem is accurate. I think thats your main problem. You think because you "train" that you somehow are an expert in other areas other that "training".
I dont have to shoot 5k rounds a week to know what is happening with the gas system. Thats another thing you dont seem to realize...
1. If its a dirty fouled chamber why would you open the port hole and not just clean it ?
2. If you open the gas port hole and in the future clean the dirty/fouled chamber what makes you think the gun will not then be over gassed ?
Your creating a problem that was not a problem in the begining...
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104571
02/09/11 08:39 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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The fact that you shoot more than me or the biggest badest operator in the valley doesnt mean your description of the problem is accurate. I think thats your main problem. You think because you "train" that you somehow are an expert in other areas other that "training".
I dont have to shoot 5k rounds a week to know what is happening with the gas system. Thats another thing you dont seem to realize...
1. If its a dirty fouled chamber why would you open the port hole and not just clean it ?
2. If you open the gas port hole and in teh future clean teh dirty/fouled chamber what makes you think the gun will not then be over gassed ?
Your creating a problem that was not a problem in the begining...
Training will show you how a gun will fail. It makes you more knowledgable about AR's than posting 500 posts a day. Training or shooting alot teaches you more about the AR platform than anything by far. How can someone who doesn't hunt recommend a scope for night time hog hunting? Doing it makes you credible. Just like training. How can someone who shoots very little if ever be an expert on a weapon platform? In your scenario I would clean and polish the chamber. Most people don't have that problem with steel. Most people get double feeds due to the steel being underpowered, thus being a gas problem.
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 08:45 PM.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104629
02/09/11 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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Weather or not I make 1 post a year or 5000 a day it doesnt change the solution to the problem being discussed.
Now lets back up here. You originally said the gas port hole nedeed to be opened if a rifle is not liking steel cased ammo now you say clean and polish the chamber. Which is it ?
The fact reamians if your BCG is cycling properly with brass then your getting the correct amount of gas down the tube.
Im curious to know what brand barrel you and your partner are using that the needing to have all these gas ports opened ?
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104647
02/09/11 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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So now your an expert on how often I hunt and how often I shoot ? This doesnt suprize me though. Are you also an expert on how often I change my socks as well ?
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104656
02/09/11 08:52 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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Its simple if the extractor is ripping the rims off the chamber is dirty or has a bur. Needs polishing. But most people who can't shoot steel are getting stovepipes/double feeds. This is chamber related.
Nearly every steel round I have had to pound out with a cleaning rod had fouling all over it.
Brand doesn't matter, we have had to do it all most manufactures at sometime or another.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104664
02/09/11 08:54 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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So now your an expert on how often I hunt and how often I shoot ? This doesnt suprize me though. Are you also an expert on how often I change my socks as well ?
Wasn't directed at you in particular. The point is how can anyone be an expert when they don't do it. If I need heart surgery. I will go to the doctor I can find that does it the most.
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 08:55 PM.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104736
02/09/11 09:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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Wasn't directed at you in particular. Whats telling and is very clear who you were talking about and you refuse to admit it. You made comments about my post count, the amount of time I spend at teh range and how often I hunt and thats pretty clear. That really doesnt bother me but more shows that you are trying to put together reasons you feel will disredit me no matter what blanket statement you make... Im not an expert nor have I ever claimed to be but I have come across this problem before and the fix was not to open up the gas port hole then making the gas system over gassed when brass cased ammo is used. You have since changed you description of how to remedy this problem. I would still like to know what brand barrel you and your partner are using that is needing port hole opened from teh factory.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104752
02/09/11 09:15 PM
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Joined: May 2009
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DallasShootingSupplies
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Wasn't directed at you in particular. Whats telling and is very clear who you were talking about and you refuse to admit it. You made comments about my post count, the amount of time I spend at teh range and how often I hunt and thats pretty clear. That really doesnt bother me but more shows that you are trying to put together reasons you feel will disredit me no matter what blanket statement you make... Im not an expert nor have I ever claimed to be but I have come across this problem before and the fix was not to open up the gas port hole then making the gas system over gassed when brass cased ammo is used. You have since then changed you description of how to remedy this problem. I would still like to know what brand barrel you and your partner are using that is needing port hole opened from teh factory. Changed my story? Steel causing two problems I see. One, its undergassed and people get double feeds due to BCG not going back far enough due to under gassed. The other problem is stovepiping and this is due to chamber. Brand varies. We get someone that calls or comes by, and says there gun won't run wolf. We shoot it and see what route to take. Discredit you? You poked at me liking to train, and I said its important to be knowledgeable about something.
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 09:17 PM.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104767
02/09/11 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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If your BCG is going back far enough to try and chamber the next round how on Gods green earth can teh gun be under gassed ? The gas system is doing its job and cycling the BCG far enough back to pick up the nest round. That means that teh probelm is the case stuck in the chambe and that is what causes the double feed. There is NO way another round will try and chamber if the BCG hasnt gone far enough back into possistion to cycle the next round...
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104832
02/09/11 09:34 PM
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Joined: May 2009
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DallasShootingSupplies
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Yes, I wrote that wrong. Thats an extractor slipping off or dirty chamber. I'm in my truck on my iphone.
Bottom line. Many gas ports especially on SBR's need to be opened to feed steel case.
Ask KP, his is 100% now after this was fixed. This is why people never get malfunctions with full power 5.56 ammo, the steel stuff is weak.
Steel case problems are. A: Extractor needs upgrading. B. Under gassed C. Chamber is fouled.
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 09:39 PM.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104907
02/09/11 09:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,666
JCB
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Let me step in here and ask a question why this thread has the AR experts attention:
On the AR15 board I read where a ton of people before heading out to shoot there guns spray thier chambers and BCG's with Break Free or Rem Oil or something else. That totaly contridicts what I have read else where saying to make sure you have very little if any lube at all because it tends to attract dirt.
So which is it???
Thanks!
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: DallasShootingSupplies]
#2104914
02/09/11 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Brandon972
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A. When an extractor is tearing the case off a round it is doing its job.
B. If the BCG is going all the way back to chamber another round, IT IS NOT UNDERGASSED...
C. A clean chamber does not mean it will like steel ammo...
When you tak about SBR/pistol uppers THEN thats when you start running into gasing problem. 95% of which can be fixed with a muzzle device design specificaly for that problem.
No where in this thread was the gas system problem of the SBR/pistol brought up accept by you so this leads me to belive that is not what is being discussed. Its about steel ammo...
You still never answered my question on what barrels you are using that are needin gas port hole adjustments from teh facory. Although I have no idea what you did to "KPs" rifle I would be willing to bet a dollar it could have been fixed without opening the port hole. Again JMO...
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: JCB]
#2104935
02/09/11 09:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,667
Brandon972
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Let me step in here and ask a question why this thread has the AR experts attention:
On the AR15 board I read where a ton of people before heading out to shoot there guns spray thier chambers and BCG's with Break Free or Rem Oil or something else. That totaly contridicts what I have read else where saying to make sure you have very little if any lube at all because it tends to attract dirt.
So which is it???
Thanks! The reason I spoke up is that opening the gas port hole in the barrel was suggested as a solution to the problem with steel cased ammo and that is very inaccurate information and could possibly lead to irreversible barrel damage. The fact is you can have your chamber as clean as it can possibly be and still have problems with some steel cases sticking in the chamber.
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Re: Steel ammo case...
[Re: Brandon972]
#2104936
02/09/11 09:59 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,243
DallasShootingSupplies
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A. When an extractor is tearing the case off a round it is doing its job.
B. If the BCG is going all the way back to chamber another round, IT IS NOT UNDERGASSED...
C. A clean chamber does not mean it will like steel ammo...
When you tak about SBR/pistol uppers THEN thats when you start running into gasing problem. 95% of which can be fixed with a muzzle device design specificaly for that problem.
No where in this thread was the gas system problem of the SBR/pistol brought up accept by you so this leads me to belive that is not what is being discussed. Its about steel ammo...
You still never answered my question on what barrels you are using that are needin gas port hole adjustments from teh facory. Although I have no idea what you did to "KPs" rifle I would be willing to bet a dollar it could have been fixed without opening the port hole. Again JMO...
I'm not talking about ripping the case off. How many hundreds of times to have to repeat. Its not brand specific on the steel cased problems. Random customers bring in there guns because they can't shoot steel. Gas port is not super common but does indeed happen. Bet a dollar not the problem? LOL, funny stuff here. We have a gauge that measures the gas port. Some become clogged or not up to spec diameter from factory. Or the gas block is canted not centered on the gas port. Adding a muzzle device is NOT the way to fix an SBR. Thats the jerry rigging way. B? I ALREADY SAID I WROTE THAT WRONG
Last edited by DallasShootingSupplies; 02/09/11 10:05 PM.
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