That is the key to harvesting does, and I'm sure most hunters don't even take that into consideration when it comes time to pulling the trigger on a doe, and more often than not they shoot the first one that presents a shot.

It's even harder to judge the age of a doe than a buck, and if you don't have others around to help you judge a big mature doe you can run the risk of shooting your young breeding does.

exactly, and taking young does has a bigger impact over old does, especially if you are managing for size... or trying to grow a herd.

But they tell me does are for meat...bucks are for decoration.

We always try to harvest only 4 year old does or older on my MLD lease. There are a few guys on the lease that always seem to shoot a 1 1/2 year old doe every season though. The Biologist never has really had a problem with it. He told us to always "try" to shoot the older ones but he realizes that not everybody can tell a 2 year old from a 4 year old so he cuts us some slack. If nothing else, the MLD program has been a learning experience for me. I spend much more time looking at deer now and less shooting.

As far as the antler restrictions go, I do not know what the answer is. I do know that they are horrible for parts of the state and great for others. No way to do a blanket approach and get good results everywhere. Even on a "by county" basis, there is no exact science to it. My lease is about 800 acres and we are allotted 10 doe tags per season and it sometimes hard to fill them all. On the other hand, a friend of mine has about the same acreage about 3 miles down the road from us that's on MLD and they are allotted 30 doe permits and have no problem killing them all. It's amazing to me to have 2 properties in the same county within 3 miles of each other and have that vast of a deer population difference. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know something needs to change for some counties.

I would have to disagree with you a bit on this one sig. Your doe that are from 3.5 to about 6.5 are you best producing doe in the herd. They are going to mature in body and age. They are capable of producing twins each year and can grow your herd tremendously. The younger doe 1.5-2.5 may be your best genetics in a culled herd but they are not the best producing doe. Under ideal rainfall conditions all doe can produce twins no matter what the age.Does can live and produce offspring well up in years. I have seen a doe tagged on a study on the old Cameron Ranch that was tagged and radio collared in the mid 80's and still alive in 1999 and the year before she had twins. If she was tagged as a fawn the last year of the study she was 14 yrs old at a minimum. LF and wild. Twins are normal and singles are rare, the differnce when you see a doe with one fawn is she may not be the best mother in the herd and could only raise or protect one fawn.

Dang Curly, 21 pages...this is a 2 bagger

Oh we actually agree. No doubt on the genetics issue as you mentioned and I know you are correct, the older ones are better producuers each year. However sheer numbers comes in to play... the younger ones just have more years to produce, and more years to eat than the older ones, just by age that's all.

You would be right back to where you were 5 years ago - the MAJORITY of hunters complaining about not seeing any mature (not Trophy deer just mature) bucks. How about implementing a 1 deer limit and bucks have to be over 13"? Meat hunters don't care about horns so it seems like a win/win.

5yrs ago i didnt hear anyone complaining about anything because out numbers were getting better not worse. The only thing i have a problem with that letsgo said is the kids dont like waiting forever on the chance of seeing a 13in + deer. My daughter is a prime example, she shot a 5pt the year before ar went in effect and doesnt want to shoot a MOMMA deer as she puts it and we havent seen a legal buck in 3 yrs.

It looks like 5 years of ARs would have made all those bucks 5 years older...... and it has. But if their genetics won't let them get over 13, they just died old, afte spreading extra less than 13 genes for a few more years...

In areas where deer would/could reach 13, then maybe it worked. In areas that they don't/can't, not so much.


The TV show link from PA was interesting. Those guys have seen mismanaged deer ruin most of a state for hunting.

can only vouch for my area, but never really heard any complaints about the bucks, most complaints I heard were doe harvest related.

Dad, It was a 4 pt. Buck but like you said. its not fun shooting the MOMMA Deer. I want some big Bucks. and you just dont see any anymore. Same way with mom. maybe if you could see 1 deer a morning that would be great. but nowa days all you see is Squirels. THINK OF THE CHILDREN !

Glad you chimed in Hoytman's Daughter!

OUTTA THE MOUTHS OF BABES! glad you spoke up michelle. And all pro ar guys i didnt talk her into saying that! Didnt even know she read my posts. lol

Always good to hear from a younger hunter, continuing the tradition

AMEN, and she wants Big Bucks . I see a future trophy hunter j/k

If only she didn't hunt in an area where the deer have all but disappered. Oh wait, she doesn't hunt much anymore.

Please God, not another video game candidate!

Let's hope not!

The age of the doe doesn't matter in the age structure of the herd according to TPWD logic.

CUZ THEY DON'T HAVE ANTLERS !!!!

(neither do spikes)

You may be on to something!

Or, does don't have the pressure of bucks (due to meat hunters) and thus many reach maturity.