The MLD has to issued to the land owner not leasee, if I understand it right, I don't think many land owners really care about MLD.

I am not your biologist so how would i know. How long were you on the program? What was your ratio based on your stand observations? What is your habitat like? ect............ I know that there are good biologist and bad. When we started our biologist would take us in the woods and show us what plants the deer ate at what times of the year. He would recomend habitat improvements and so on. We have had three biologists since then and i cant say much about any of them because they really arent involved.

No, the land owner doesnt have anything to with it. Ours is timber property and is all ran by our lease president.

I agree but to me it sounds like alot of these guys qualify. If nothing else make up some observation sheets and start keeping your own records. I look foward to seeing all the numbers crunched everyyear. Ill agree its a process but its more than worth it in my opinion.

How many acres is your MLD lease?

2400 with 11 memebers and a ton of kids. We have to shoulder mount our bucks and kids shoot what ever they want for they're first buck. We usually get 10 does tags and 10 buck tags with no more than four bucks being quality ones. (mature trophies)

wasn't on the program, the projected numbers didn't go over well, the difference between what he said and the one that was brought out there to hunt and observe came up with a difference of about 60 does.

Hardwoods, pine plantation and about 3000 acres of select cut plantation that is thick as heck. (scheduled to have 50-100 acres of foodplots pushed in the select cut areas this summer)

Ratio should be roughly 3:1.

We arent as serious as its sounds. A mistake buck just costs you a cord of firewood. ($125) We just wanted to make a place close to home to have a legitimate shot at a 160 plus buck. It took 14 years to get one that big last year and we got one this year too. The average buck is in the high 130s to mid 140s.

Try asking a TPW biologist about MLD on 500 to 800 acres and see what he tells you. Most guys here that are not liking the AR's are on smaller places and some on larger ones. You are very lucky to get MLD on that place but I am betting the total acreage of the timber co. is what got you the MLD. What is your deer density? Lucky in the fact also that one guy gets left out of a buck and 6 do not get a trophy even if you have them. Just curious if kids shoot whatever they want does it count against your 10 buck tags?

i have to agree with you thats sounds like a ton of does for that acreage in east texas. The most we have ever been issued is 15 for 2400 acres. And that was way back when we were trying to get our ratio right. We are .7 does to 1 buck now.

I'll try. We've dealt with MLD and LAMPS and the county system years ago too.

TPW only data from Red River or Fannin comes from check stations on government land, game warden reports(which are only on illegal deer), and MLD census. In fact, in many of their years of data, all they have are game warden reports, which for several years it was very few, like 6 or 8 deer that made the entire data set for that year. (I published it on here once, but don't have a link)


In visiting with Mitch Lockwood and others with TPWD Big Game division, they are aware of the inadequacies of their current data system; and of the regional application of that data. They too want to bring data down to a local level and the management goals at that level too. The need complete use of Texas Wildlife Info. Mgmt System (TWIMS) which needs more funding. They also need to fully fund and staff their statistics branch and several other offices. (I was a critic of the department, I am not now, just a critic of the current system).

I don't think a cooperative is the answer. Landowners overall, tend to be very skeptic of the government. Especially as many absentee landowners as there are there and considering the area was a government/paper mill/EPA area that was sold off and many are not happy with the government anyway....

With the areas we manage in several counties, it's hard to find landowners that are willing to do MLD. MOst want NO part of the government if they can keep from it.

WE have ran this one before by TPWD. The landowner MUST have designated the president or whoever as his AGENT.

I was late then. I was not against them till I saw the lack of deer after a couple of years.....

Depends on what the kids shoot. If its a promising 3.5 year old ten then we call it a qaulity buck. If its a 2.5 or 3.5 year old six then its a cull. We try to use our best judgement.

Actually what got us on the program was our old biologist. We kept bringing nice bucks to the processor where ages and measures them and he asked us if we were interested in signing up.

Deer density is 5 deer per 100 acres.

I really dont have a problem not killing a buck every year. I have killed three trophies in 15 years. I am just thankful to have a oportunity at a big buck. Its part of the deal. We all know east texas deer populations cant support everyone getting a big buck every year. Besides our idea of what a big buck is a gradually progressed over the years to the point where shooting 4 bucks that we call trophies would be real tough.

Lazy hunters? Wow, sorry I am late to this party.


The solution to me is 1 doe or doe tags. I have no problem killing a mature buck, heck that is all I shoot. I have done fairly well here in NE TX. I dont like the rule as it stands. I dont think we can stand 2 does and a spike and a mature deer. That is too much pressure. MLD is difficult to optain and the owner has to be a part of it. As a landowner I have looked into forming one with a neighbor. The red tape was more than I wanted and luckily I backed out before starting. He passed and now I have 8 hunters on his 500 acres leased by his wife, and they hammer any and all.

Info is at http://texasleasehunting.com/huntingleasegamemanagement/managedlanddeerpermits.html

15K acre place I was on was getting in the 220-280 range for several years... that slaughter spilled over to anyone and everyone around us (but we were told if we didn;t shoot them, they wouldn't bring in the 20 bred TTT deer from STX. This was after staying in the 100-120 range for year. They screwed that place up so bad they dropped members like crazy, had to give up 3600 acres of it to keep the price in the 2K range and still have heck keeping members b/c it ticked everyone off.

I dont like the rule as it stands either. Change to 1 buck 13" or bigger, no spike tag, 1 doe tag and make an age exemption for mature bucks under 13"

I dont like and age limit. I am a seasoned hunter with many kills and I know deer very well, but I am not 100% accurate. I have takenthe jaw off at least a dozen of my kills to be aged and I am about 75%.

Wow! Is that just for does? I can see why you would be hesitant.

I think 1 deer per 100 acres is a sustainable number for most of east texas.

Doesnt have to be to the year. Just mature or not mature. Let the game warden use his judgement and know that if you shoot one your not sure of your fate is in his hands.

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Are you serious?

Im just trying to please all parties. Personally i believe the numbers are narrow racked (under 13')mature deer are so small that it doesnt really need changing.

Wouldnt it be nice though if we could just trust our law enforcement to inforce the intent of the law rather than the black and white of the law itself.

that was just for does... usually in the neighborhood of 70mgmt tags and 25 cull tags for that place. It didn't have the population they were estimating and it showed up. Pre-slaughter, if you hunted and actually spent some time out there you could kill a deer in the 130s-160s every year. There were deer bigger than that on the place, but it was heck trying to find one during season. (or if you did, remove head from rearend and make sure your bottom cam isn't going to smack the rail on your climber )

lol i have been there. Bottom cam hit my seat and missed a beautiful 9 point at 13 yards