Spike tag and at least one doe tag!

I still like Sig's idea....1 deer. That's it, then you're done. Buck or doe regardless of it's age.

me too; makes it easier to get kids and new hunters involved and successful; then teach management ideas beyond that.

Plus less deer are being killed!

I still have yet to see anyone explain why they are seeing less mature bucks than they were before. everyone acts like their deer leases had plenty of mature bucks, but now with AR's in place, the mature deer are few and far between.

so please..... someone please explain how a system that is more restrictive on shooting bucks, results in fewer mature bucks?

say everyone shoots a spike now... we can debate spikes all day long, as 99% of them are yearling bucks. Are 75% of bucks born in east texas as spikes?

I see lots of photos of clearly immature bucks that aren't legal.... hence, they shouldn't be shot.

so what is the cause?

I can understand seeing fewer der overall with the increase of the doe tags. But does aren't bucks. Does don't grow antlers (usually)..... so why are there fewer mature bucks?

everyone is quick to blame AR's for lack of mature legal deer, but there is no logical reason why it could result in fewer mature deer.

Spikes become bucks, and yes should be protected until they are at least 2.5.

Does produce bucks, about fifty percent of the time..... if you kill too many of them this year, you are reducing next years buck population for fawns by 50% (roughly)....

Do that long enough (like 5 years) and it decreases the number of mature bucks available....

Those 3.5 year old 12.5inch deer from 5 years ago never reached 13 inches and have died of old age and other natural predations....

Eastern Lampasas Co. 500 acres. Five years of AR. Deer numbers continue to increase. Hunting pressure continues to increase on neighboring ranches. Seeing more bucks, including spikes, odd and narrow racks, and 2.5y/o 12" 8 pointers. Only a couple mature bucks spotted (none by me and I was out there every weekend). No mature deer were taken by any of us, though a couple that squeaked by 13" were.

2008 and 2009 were Exceptional drought years and 2010 wasn't much better.

Results inconclusive.

PS The local Game Warden told us last year he was getting writers cramp from writing tickets for undersized bucks at the local processors. I'm guessing ARs aren't very popular around there either.

He must be lying!


Just read above, no game warden really writes tickets for that! It's not the intent of the law!

Forget why "we" should explain why "we" think ARs have something to do with the decline of our deer populations (in certain areas) I just wish someone would explain to us why they thought we HAD to have antler restrictions in the first place and what good the added spike tag and extra doe bag limit does to help the health of our deer herds. I mean isn't that the supposed overall goal, to improve the health of deer herds?

DEAD ain't good for anythings health!

So Sig, is it a correct statement to say that the only deer they really care to protect are the young bucks with "potential"?

that's why you don't leave the head at the processor!

Before AR the average age of a buck shot in east tx co was a 1 1/2. How are shoting 1 1/2 yr spike going to decimate the buck numbers in those countys. I believe increase poaching and year round hunting for food are a way bigger problem in east tx. I would say that removing one of the doe tags from the limit in east tx may be a good idea but at the end of the day it all boils down to yall hunter in east tx. No body forces you are your fellow hunts to kill a doe or the spike

Because when everyone is forced to hold out for a mature buck, that's all that gets killed... at least at first. Then you're left with nothing but younger and/or inferior bucks and due to frustration, inexperience and greater hunter numbers, they soon take a big hit too... assuming the GW wasn't lying to me about all the tickets he's writing for undersized bucks. That's one theory anyway.

As far as any increased poaching goes, I would think East Texans have less of a need for poaching now with the extra spike tag and increased doe bag limits.

HORN

He's writing them as the idiots pull in with their deer.

Please don't make me read through all the other posts! lol No problem, I can can imagine who said it.

The ones most likely to shoot small deer, are the ones most likely to take them to a processor.

Vernon Richardson, January 17, 2011

According to all the east tx AR guys they all dont see spike or kill does and no mature bucks. And all the while the deer population is being decimated bye this lack of harvesting. I need one of you guys to explain this one. Not adding up

Exactly!

Ill try to explain how it helps the health of a deer herd:

Shooting more does brings your buck to doe ratio closer to 1 to 1. When you have an even ratio you have a shorter more pronounced rut which means that most of your does are getting bred roughly around the same time. This allows for better fawn recruitment due to the strength in numbers philosophy. (If there are more deer being bred at the same time there will be more fawns being born at the same time giving them a better chance of survival.) The spike tag is intended to remove a few more mouths to feed thereby giving your other "better" bucks more nutrition. The 13" inch rule is intended to stop hunters from harvesting bucks that are not mature (duh i know) again giveng you a more balanced herd.

I put the "better" in qoutations because i dont believe in shooting yearling spikes.

Having said that I dont believe this management plan will not work in all areas it needs to be propert specific. Some properties can sustain more deer than others so you have to know how many bucks and does you can kill. Thats why i recomend all you guys who do not like ars to get on the mld program and start your own property specific management plan. To me it sounds like you guys have nothing to loose if your leases are as bad a s you say they are.

Oh it adds up. Before AR's when it was ONE BUCK ONLY, bubba MIGHT, might pass on a spike looking for a big buck. NOW, every spike that shows up in front of bubba gets hammered (or at least the first one does).... plus 2 does, plus if any of them do make 12.5 they get shot too.

There's no chance of a spike walking past bubba.


Me, Curly, Hoyt, etc haven't been shooting them, but someone has!!!

For every doe that gets shot, you killed half a buck next year, half the next year, half the next year...

When someone shoots a 2.5 year old doe...... if she would have lived to 6.5, they also killed 2 bucks and 2 does over the next four years.