As far as I am concerned we can have a THF get together and everybody who wants to weigh in can shoot and have fun doing it.

Hmmmm, I'm willing to meet half way if Mark doesn't want to, no real big deal to me, I'm more curious than anything.
I do occasionally have to roll thru Houston but don't have anything on the schedule for out there right now.

That sounds like fun!

I think it would be a good time had by all. Even if say the bc shells were to beat my pattern it will still prove they are not the spectular best ever they are being made out to be. I can say that because I already know what my shotgun patter pellet percentages are before this thread started. If your gun can beat it then it was you and your pattern efforts that made your weapon shoot an outstanding pattern. It dang sure ain't because you went to a shelf in bass pro shop and paid a rediculous amount of money on a box of lightning and magic.

The other important piece if information being missed here is range. Most of us can shoot and kill ducks much farther than we allow ourselves. I try and stay well within the 40 yard range on ducks. So if a person I watching his range and not killing ducks clean with any shell then something else is wrong. Something is bad wrong and should not be fixed with buying a box if shells that claim spectacular kills and range. It should be fixed by learning to shoot your weapon, patterning that weapon and putting that pattern on a bird.

Wal, read above posts, I have always said BC is only better if you use the proper gun and choke.
I have never tried to pattern kent's but have paper plate tested winchesters and was not impressed but I know we all can kill with the cheapest shells there are.

For me it is BC and a mid or full choke depending on where I'm hunting.

I would like to get several guns with several different shells, all say 3" # 3's or 4's and let's start at 10 yards, move them 5 yards at a time and see the results between the different manufacturers and guns.

That's the only way I know to eliminate the question.

For the record, I don't care what brand anyone else shoots, I just like what I like but have worked with that extrema a little on chokes to see what shoots the best in it, my daughters 410 with full choke and #5's bismuth patterns the tightest at 25 yards...lol

i'm game. And i shoot the old ever hated stoeger model 2000. So ya'll name the place and i'll do my best to be there

Doubt anyone wants to get into a cook off with the opener next weekend, but what about the middle weekend in the split?

I wounder if BC would be willing to host the event.

Wayne...I don't represent BC I'm trying to be pretty fair and objective with my comments...my arguments were based solely on the components. As for wads and what they can do I guess we disagree. So you are saying no matter what wad you are using the pellets just fly out after it leaves the barrel. So a wad makes absolutely no difference is pretty much what I'm hearing from you...right or wrong? OK if I'm understanding you fine do this...start reloading...buy some wads that you have to cut the petals by hand...go ahead and don't cut any on one of the wads...then go shoot that shell at a board. The results at say 20 yards would be very noticable with a wad with four to six petals vs one with none. The one with none would act more like a slug. You'd have a crazy tight pattern that would be unsuitable for hunting use.

The only way any of what you said about this contest would make sense is if you use the same gun and choke for both loads. Then you would also have to rerun the same test with differnt chokes to see if one load patterns better than the other with that choke. You have to have constants. Lining up with different guns would only prove that one gun using one load and choke combo patterns better than another with another set up.

Drill down...if you want to be more objective...buy a box of your remingtons and a box of BC. Shoot say with the same gun and run it 3 or 4 times with different chokes and post the results.

One thing I've learned about patterning from my studies is that you can make just about any load pattern decent if you can find the right combo.

DO NOT LEAVE ME OUT OF THIS. IF THERE IS A GET TOGETHER FOR THIS, I WOULD LIKE TO BE THERE.

I'm not pushing any shell or gun in particular. I just love studying all the differences. I love patterning my guns with different shells and chokes. I would love to participate if this materializes.

wally, I'm going goose hunting agian this year with bay praire, would be nice to hunt with you again, and I should emjoyed handling your rattlesnakes a couple months ago.

Gene

OK! You finally talked about this enough where you agreed with me and didn't even realize it. Your last sentence says exactly what I have been saying all along. It is not about one particular shell over the other. It is about the combination of shell to the choke. It is certainly not about an advertised, celebrity endorsed, fix all box of shells. That is the point I have been trying to make. For the record I stopped reloading because it is no longer cost effective or timewise for me. 90 years ago I was loading 1000 rounds of 9mm per week as my old chief and I would shoot them all on Sundays. I started loading shotgun shells in 1979 and stopped 3 years ago. I sold my entired cache of equipment including the bench to a forum member who answered the add. I hated to see it go but I had no time. It is simply cost and time effective for me to go to Walmart and buy Remington 3 inch #4 pellet or a flat of 7.5 for doves and be done with it. I piddle with the chokes and paper and I have a more than respectable pattern that kills ducks. I then jumped into tuning my Browning 3.5 mag. I robbed a lot of information from my buddy Doc who has the same weapon. My pattern master is 10 % behind his Terror choke with BB loads at 55 yards. Mine at 55% pellet retention and his at 65%. So if you can buy a box of BC off the shelf and produce those numbers then I guess I am behind this discussion and lost the friendly competition before it has begun. It would still be a lot of fun to get together and try a bunch of loads and chok combos where we can all learn while having a good time. I will offer my family homestead in Flatonia, Texas if we all want to meet there. We can go below the dam and set up 2 t posts with wire twix the two and clothes pins holding the paper.

Like you said they are all able to kill birds as long as you do your homework and tune in whatever choke/ammo combination you shoot. So with that being said, you have answered your own question. No need to involve science or math. If you have been successful with a specific shell/choke combination, why mess with it. "If it aint broke". Your trying to get somebody to give you a scientific breakdown on TTHF and nobody cares about science, just results. So thats what your gonna get, opinions. Its the only kind of science we know, just good old fashion field experience. If thats not good enough for you, and your still determined to have scientific proof, call Myth Busters!
Just my 2cents

and that's the bottom line.............

because stone cold said so man i miss being a kid

Wayne...the patterning and choking of loads to optimize performance was never a question. I never based the "BC is good" argument on patterning. I based it on the fact that the components are high quality. I don't think you can argue against the components being of high quality...you can argue and are arguing that it doesnt matter all that much...to that I would also never disagree with.

There are many factors that make up how good a shell is or isnt. Things like components and patterning you can actually see. However that's only part of it. You can have a great pattern but if you are pushing the load at 1200fps it's not going to have an effective killing range as a poorer patterning load that is pushing 1550fps. When you start adding up all the variables it's impossible to really give an objective answer.

But if you want to bottom line this stuff BC are effective at the task given but they are expensive. If you can afford it and want to try them out it certainly won't hurt.

He's baaaacccckkkkk. It's 12:37 right now and lunch lasts until 2:00.

Are we talking marketing or physics? I'm in...

Lunch only lasts 30 mins today...and now because of you have am missing opening day and will have to work. Thanks for nothing Moose!

That is as funny as it gets right there

I love Black Cloud threads.

Shot probably every shell made for duck hunting. The ones I don't like are Estates, Winchester Experts, RIO and Black Cloud.

But I have seen lots of ducks killed by the above shells. Shooting is a mental exercise more than anything. If you like the Black Clouds, you will shoot well with them. If you like Dryloks, you will shoot well with them.

Doesn't make one better than the other though.