I think if the TP&W is truly trying to improve Texas deer herds, they should not allow the shooting of any spike buck just to be on the safe side.

1) chest depth, and swaggering back. Stumpy looking legs, as body seems to have outgrown his legs. Roman like nose.
2)spike, at about 3
3)6 1/2 yr old

So in a good year deer actually grow more than they are genetically capable of growing?

What you really want is the deer that grow the best antlers in bad years instead of the deer that grow the best antlers in any year?

since the vast majority of spikes are 1.5 years old, that might not be a bad idea.

Game Cameras to create the "hit list". I usually want the biggest rack producer for that year. Regardless of age.

Spikes only get shot after repeated offenses on camera two years in a row making him at least 3.5 yrs old.

This is my low fence strategy only. High fence ranches may need to cull spikes earlier for population control.

Your fence height will determine your management plan.

STUDY AFTER STUDY SHOWS THAT THE 1ST SET OF ANTLERS (1.5YR OLD) IS THE VERY BEST TIME TO CULL. YOU MAY DISAGREE, BUT TALK WITH A BIOLOGIST WHO MANAGES DEER HERDS AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY WILL TELL YOU. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'VE TOLD ME, JUST PASSING ON THE INFO.

I WAS TOLD BY A VERY EXPERIENCED DEER BIOLOGIST THIS PAST YEAR THAT "YEARS LIKE THIS WILL TRULY SHOW YOU WHAT AN ANIMAL HAS, A BUCK THAT WOULD BE A SMALL FORK IN A GOOD YEAR WILL BE A SPIKE NOW, TIME TO CULL HIM, AND A BUCK WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD 4, 6, OR 8PT 1.5YR OLD WILL STILL BE AT THE LEAST A FORKED ANTLERED DEER, TIME TO LET HIM WALK AND PASS ON THOSE GREAT GENETICS."

LOTS AND LOTS OF BREEDING IS DONE BY 1.5YR OLD DEER IN MOST HERDS, WHEN A MATURE BUCK IS HUNKERED DOWN WITH ONE DOE FOR 24 HRS OR MORE THOSE YOUNG BUCKS ARE BREEDING.

Can someone show me a study that proves "culling" bucks on low fenced property even works?

I would think for anything to work, the deer would have to have a balanced sex ratio, have a diverse age structure and be below the carrying capacity of the land.

Most low fenced places I have seen don't have this in one form or another.

Some good feedback here, my biggest concerns are being on a place for the first time and trying to size and age properly. I think I can spot a yearling pretty easy but the difference between 2,3, and 4 yr old can be vague. I can spot an old buck but not know if he is 5 or 6. I'd also like to say that I think the studies done by bookworms are hard to believe sometimes due to the fact they are using HF or penned herds.

Like Rick O'Shay said, they are like people, skinny and healthy when they are young and beer bellied and awnry as they get older. If that is true I got some real trohpy buds!

What's his name? I know many experienced biologists that would tell you the complete opposite. Never cull spikes on a down year. If you want to cull spikes, the only time I would ever consider it is on an exceptional year, where there is plenty to eat. Even then, I probably wouldn't.

All this debate on culling bucks and in reality its the does that should be "thinned out". Yes, cull your 2 1/2 y.o. spikes and ALL your freaks. Some may think differently but when it comes to balancing the herd, does should be the first to go. BTW, excuse me for jumping off topic please.

x2... Only thing on LF you can control is some of the numbers and food... and some of the sex ratio and age. if you can't stop dispersal you can't change genetics. Only thing you can do is let them get old and try to get them fat .

free country, if someone thinks they can change genetics via culling spikes knock your self out, their money and time. I just hope they arn't my niebhor

Bobo, don't completely agree. You can't control genetics on 200 acres, however, you could see some success on 20K acres low fence.

We are as close as we can get , you could control a little(very little peice) of the genetics on 20k...which is still a lot more the you could on a 200 acre place, but until you stop or highly control dispersal you still have genetics coming in and leaving. Basically you can have more of an impact on 20k but still not enough to truely change genetics..

What you do have on 20k LF that you don't have on 200 acres LF is a greater ability to truely protect the majority of your younger bucks, and a greater understanding of your resident herd numbers and ratios.

I look at the size of a deers head and look for a saggy belly. 3.5 to 4.5 is a dramatic increase in body size. 5.5 + will usually be the biggest deer in a group. While scouting look for a three point track.

LF management? Habitat is the key. Supplemental feeding helps but it's hard to top what nature provides naturally. Taking does will help population controll but I don't think I can shoot my way to trophy bucks. Just about any buck 5.5 or older will be nice.

Justin, you and I are pretty much on the same page, but I believe they recently completed a study on a large area of the King ranch and concluded their culling efforts were fruitless. I believe the study was conducted by Mickey H.

I just wish all these guys would quite using the excuse of "I'm helping the genetics of the herd by shooting that deer". It seems most people are looking for a reason to shoot a deer and this seems to be the go to one. Hell if you want to shoot the deer then shoot it and be happy. We dont need to hear you shot it because you are helping the deer herd.

These are the same guys that are doing nothing to improve the habitat, manage their deer numbers, or age structure of bucks but by God they are going to help by shooting that spike or freak.

On a side note, after seeing what one of my freaks turned into last year, I think I am going to give them all a pass until they mature, I really like those crazy racks. I have one I have been watching for two years now and cant wait to see him this year. Last year he was a typical 5 on one side and absolutely crazy on the other. I am sure he has pedical damage on that side. Good hunting to everyone.

How do you like what simple answers to your simple questions have exploded into?

Did I do that?

HE HE!

This antler width vs. age thing is killing me, seriously. I found a dead deer after season in 2002 that was 6.5 and had a 9.5" spread and scored 139 1/8" as an 8.
Age 'em on body characteristics old bucks = tank
If I was culling, the spike would have to be 2.5+. Check out some articles by Dr. Deer (James Kroll) or Larry Weishuhn(?)
Oldest deer I've taken = 6.5

Free wille and abolish AR's

lets change the tone

Im not gonna fall for it Bobo....I'm trying to be good....at least till closer to season.

me to was trying not to put my 2 cents in on spikes.... well at least i tried...

It's not just what I've seen in my rather limited experience, it's what people I know who run extremley succesful hunting ranches have told me.

they don't shoot cull bucks younger than 3.5 years old.

they let trophy deer get to a minimum of 6.5 years old (one does 7.5)

last time I hunted on one of the ranches I saw several native, non geneticallly altered deer that were over 200"

their methods seem to be working quite well.

Agree 100% but I bet they are doing some serious habitat management and numbers control as well as defining which bucks to shoot or not shoot if they have native 200" deer roaming their ranch. To be so lucky!

yes... they manage their places very well. As far as the bucks go, nothing gets shot before it's 3 years old. (unless wounded, diseased, etc)

here's one they found dead a couple years ago... you should see the big ones