I see references to this all the time on this forum and others like it. I know this is annoying to ask and probably part of the whole joke, but can anyone explain the joke to me?

Is it just making fun of people who say they've seen weird stuff? It seems like its an alternative for calling BS on somebody's story...you just add that you've seen a black panther. Is that right?

Sorry for the dumb question..just curious.

Black panthers range from East TX to So Texas. I call them in with my foxpro all the time. I have seen 3 in a group chasing after a baby chupa. Be careful they will bite.

Dude ok so is that the whole joke and I just tee'd you up for it? You're welcome I guess.


Didn't even bother asking about chupas...I know those are real!

EL CHUPACABRA!!!! they sure do taste good though hahaha

I have a pigmy black panther that I catch on my game camera all the time. Neighbor has begged me not to shoot him for some reason.

Ahhhhhh, the dreaded black panther....

If you are interested in black panthers then you need to go do some research on some wildlife sites.

I see em all the time on my place. Lot's of crazy stuff going on out there in the woods.

Yeah, I choked one to death just yesterday. Wait...maybe that was a chicken?
But seriously, to answer your question; Lots of people have "claimed" to see them, even very reputable people. But no one ever has a picture to prove it.

Make sure you post tha pic of hogzilla vs. a black panther if you get one. Monsterquest could do a show at your feeder.

Hey I got a picture. Nothing funny about it either.

LOL, I'm proven wrong..again.

Black panthers in texas are melanistic bobcats or possibly cougars. Melanistic is the opposite of leucistic which is similar to albino. Here is a pic of a melanistic bobcat:

Lots of people have "claimed" to see them, even very reputable people. But no one ever has a picture to prove it. [/quote]

How many people have a camera handy in their back pocket every time they go out in the woods????? Not to mention that most big cats roam at night......most of our regular household cameras won't take a good pic in the dark from a reasonable distance. I mean for real, how many times have you seen something cool in the pasture, even a trophy buck, and said to yourself "Man I wish I had my camera to take a picture of this". I don't always understand the scepticism that people have.
Let's flip the scenario: Do all of the sceptics out there have proof that they don't exist. If so, let's see the proof. Can't mention the fact that there are no pictures, kills, or trapped panthers----that doesn't prove anything.
I saw a show on the Discovery Channel a while back that said dozens of new primate species have been discovered over the last 40 something years. Every year new species of life are discovered that "didn't" exist before. So, to the sceptics and naysayers, I say prove they don't exist before you write them off as tall tales.
I'm not saying I have seen one before, I'm just saying I haven't ruled out the possibility of existence. This topic has been discussed before on here.
P.S. Sasquatch and Loch Ness are off limits in discussion. HAHA

Do you have any idea how many game cameras are out there 24/7??? Still not one single picture of a Black Panther!

There is a reason why no photos have been taken of a black panther, or big foot for that matter.

That answers it then! Since no game camera has taken a picture of a black panther (that we know of)...........Then they just don't exist!!!!! Because we all know that game cameras are the answer when all else fails, right?

Do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Unicorns, and Mermaids?

They have been around about as long as the Black Panther and no photos exist of them either! I guess there is still a chance they are real though!

No modern day pics of Jesus either, but I do strongly believe in him. Look, I'm not trying to start a fight here, just trying to put a different perspective on the subject.....from an objective point of view. None of us can truly prove or disprove that they exist. It's opinionated. And please don't belittle me by refering to tooth fairies, unicorns, and such. I do draw the line on what could be and what actually doesn't exist. My only point is that so many "experts on here" say they don't exist but there is nothing to back them up except that there are no photograghs. Again, I'm not saying black panthers are out there, but they could be, possibly. People who say they have seen them are either 100% correct or it is a case of mistaken identity. Gotta go, lots of work to do at the casa this weekend. Have fun with this subject.

I like how when you talk to someone who has seen only ONE mountain lion in their entire life... it's a black one.

I guess some people are just really lucky!

Not trying to belittle you Cody. I simply made a statement about game cameras and the fact there is not one single picture of a Black Panther out there and you decided to rebut that with a smart azz remark. I gave you a little dose of your own medicine in return and then you cry foul.

Anyway..........Yes at one point in my life I thought I saw a Black Panther. It was at Lake Texoma when I was about 8 years old. I believed it was a Black Panther up untill I learned that there has NEVER been a confirmed photo, sighting, killing, or born in captivity Black Panther EVER! I dont know what I saw that day, but it was definatly a big black cat with a long tail. I can still see it in my mind right now. I dont know if it was just the lighting of the scene that day or what, but I feel pretty confident it wasnt the elusive Black Panther.

there were jaguars in Texas back in the day..supposedly comming back a little bit in the south west. i won't say they don't exist

i saw one that was VERY convincing...it was on foxnews at a phlidelphia voting booth with his fist in the air

Anybody ever hear the story of the Black Panther that lived in downtown Ft Worth? Supposedly, This Panther hung around the police station for a while, and kinda became a mascot. The City put up a statue across the street from the police station in the memory of the Panther. To my lnowledge, Ft Worth Police badges still have a Panther across the top.

Black Jaguars are known to exist! Black Panthers (AKA Black Mountain Lions) have yet to be discovered.

Where on Texoma did you "think" you saw one? I live at the lake and there have been sightings of cougars. In fact, I have a picture of a 4" wide cat track. I'm not saying it was one, but it sure was BIG, lol.

It was at some park that me and my Grandpaw went camping at in his popup trailer right on the lake. I dont know the name of it because I was so young at the time. I figure I was about 8 years old at the time so that would put it around the 1986 time frame.

I appologize, you are right. In looking back that was a foul comment, shouldn't have made it. This is a very debatable subject based on truth or mistaken identity. I've seen several (one very close encounter) mountain lions on ranches I've worked on and hunted in the past----all tan colored, none black.
Just for grins on that comment earlier...............Yes I do believe in those creatures. When I was a kid, My pet Unicorn bucked me off when he was spooked by Sasquatch chasing the Easter Bunny across our trail. The fall dislodged one of my teeth in which the Tooth Fairy was kind enough to pay me a visit and introduce me to Santa Clause for payment! Unfortunatley, I did not get a photo taken. You'll just have to take my word for it. Have a great weekend. God Bless.

Cool pic, cant say Ive ever heard of a black bobcat. But would look cool as a mount for sure.

The chance of an animal living in Texas and not being caught by a game camera at some point is very close to zero.

Black panthers are basically like Santa Clause, The Tooth Fairy, or Eskimos. Not real.

OK, here you go........

A whole area here is known as black cat thicket. Has been named that for a century or so.

Lots of sightings reported.

Last fall some people had pics, they were published in the Greenville Herald Banner....Greenville, Hunt Co, TX

Identified by a biologist as a Jaguarandi....

It was on here before.

Some of the sightings are reported by some of the greatest men I have ever known. They are leaders and God-fearing truthful men. Who am I to call them liars. I don't.

I have a buddy that has a picture of a jaguarundi. Have you seen one? They're teeny. Like long house cats. Are they classified in the "panthera" group?

You must be using Indian Corn

Cudde backs never lie!

Wife tolded me there was a lady here in marion county that has two blacks in a cage. It was on the news about 3/4 weeks ago.

I believe dont know for sure but there are no genetic make up for which a mountain lion will be black. At least that is what I have learned through my biology teacher

Just an honest question here. This is really for a genetisist (or some expert with more clout than us) to answer....but food for thought anyway.
Mountain Lions do have some black in their fur (ear tips, tail tip, etc..) Now if black bobcats exist, black house cats, black jaguars (all felines & some abnormalities), how can we absolutely rule out black mountain lions? This is my reason for thinking it could be possible for black panthers to exist. Not saying they do....but maybe. Just think about it.

i saw one that was VERY convincing...it was on foxnews at a phlidelphia voting booth with his fist in the air

I saw that one too, I think he had a shotgun

Kingdom: Animalia

Phylum: Chordata

Class: Mammalia

Order: Carnivora

Family: Felidae

Subfamily: Felinae

Genus: Puma

Species: P. yagouaroundi

Up to 50 inches long and 20 pounds

Black Panthers exist!!!

If ol' Honest Abe says it's true, then end of discussion!

I've seen three in my lifetime in Alabama

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_panther

If Wiki says it it must be true!

I thought I spotted one about 30 years ago, but it moved so quickly (and at night) that I can't be certain. Do I believe that black panthers (or something that would actually pass for one) actually exist? I honestly don't know. What I believe is a different matter altogether.

I know this topic has been a source for a lot of ribbing in the past - some, but not all of it good natured - but reading some of the responses takes me back many years, to a sophomore debate class. One of the cardinal rules of debate is that it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. The existence of something not previously seen might be highly unlikely, but there's no real way to disprove its existence. When I was going through cold weather training in the Northern Sierras, "common wisdom" in the area - and accepted scientific opinion - was that wolves were virtually extinct in the region. Yet in the 2 weeks we spent on govt land which likely hadn't seen human footprints in many years, we saw quite a few healthy packs. My guess was that they were smart enough to stay away from areas frequented by humans.

Secondly, it's been proven that a less-than-expert hunter can be closed in on a pretty small piece of land with a deer, and spend days without ever seeing the animal. It would therefore be reasonable to suggest that a more intelligent animal, not subjected to the pressure that so often drives animals into humanized environs, might never be seen, yet still be part of a viable (even thriving) population. Again, not saying this is the case, only that the evidence to dispel such a theory is lacking.

Finally, we all have our favorite stories that some listeners might believe to be bs (I know I do!). Belittling someone because you don't personally believe their story doesn't settle anything, it only fosters ill feelings, and I think there's enough of that. Doesn't bother me when someone reaches for the high rubber boots upon hearing some of my bs, but if it turns into personal put-downs...

Ron always brings a level headed common sense point of view, well said Sir!

Thanks, Vernon. I enjoy a lively debate as much as anyone, but when one turns into a pissing match, reasonable discussion goes out the window, and it gets boring pretty quickly (at least to me). I also hate to think that anyone - especially someone new to the forum - would hesitate to ask the group a question or post an opinion for fear of being publicly reamed for doing so. Not the best way to attract new members, and it doesn't cast hunters in the most favorable light to the non-hunting world, either. Again, IMO.

Alright - well thanks everyone for the posts. Gives me a little more color on the joke, I guess. And Ron, thanks for bringing logic back to the table. I completely agree with you.

[/quote]

Black Jaguars are known to exist! Black Panthers (AKA Black Mountain Lions) have yet to be discovered. [/quote]

This

The problem allies in the "FACT" that the Mountain Lion, Puma, Cougar, etc does not exist in a melanistic phase. There is not a single documented case of one existing in the melanisitc phase. Scientists have tried for years to selectively breed a black mountain lion and it has never occured.

The most logical explanation for someone seeing a "black panther" would be a black jaguar, since those do exist. However, black jaguars only account for ~6% of the entire jaguar population (in areas where the black jaguars are most common). So if people seeing "black panthers" are in fact seeing jaguars, why aren't there 15 times the number of sightings for the much more common jaguar?

Thats why most of these sightings are pretty much ingnored and laughed at by most people that have done the research and uderstand the facts. I don't doubt that these people may have seen a black animal with a long tail. But I bet in most of these cases the animal was probably some type of dog rather than a black panther.

That's a valid and well-supported opinion, sprig, but still falls short of being a proven fact, for the reasons I noted above (impossibility of proving a negative). Remember; skeptics - including some of the greatest scientific minds throughout history - have rightfully stated that there is no concrete evidence to prove that God exists, despite centuries of effort to discover such data. And yet after all that effort, they can only truthfully state that it is their opinion - logically arrived at - that there is no God. And as it turns out, a significant number of reasonable and intelligent people - the majority of the world's population, in fact - do indeed believe in God.

Who knows... He might even take the shape of a black panther, just to mess with us.

Keep in mind that, despite all their efforts, they haven't been able to create life, either, yet nobody would argue that because of their inability to reproduce it, life doesn't exist.

It's a fun topic to debate, so long as the participants realize that it is still a debatable topic, rather than a foregone conclusion and enjoy the discussion for what it is.

Just for the record, I'm not trying to be a contrarian here. It's not about whether I believe that there are black panthers (or anything else), but whether our personal belief - no matter how sensible or strongly held - meets the necessary criteria to be accepted as fact, without potential for plausible challenge. If we can acknowledge that minute potential for fallibility, we'd be more likely to be respectful of each other's right to their beliefs. If nothing else, just think of the example we could set for our elected officials!

Black Panthers dont exist!

No pictures, no body (dead or alive), no proof, no reason for me to believe they exist!

That is all!

The only opinion in my post was that they are probably seeing dogs.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, its a case of mistaken identity. Whether it was a cougar in low light conditions that appeared black or another species of animal such as a dog, I don't know. But I do KNOW that they DID NOT see a black cougar.

In Louisiana people reported black panther sightings for years. In fact I'd be willing to bet that there were more black panther sightings than the brown panther sightings. In all of the cases that were investigated, every single black panther sighting turned out to be a dog. Common sense tells me that if half of all cougar sightings (as in Louisiana at one point in time) were of the elusive black panther, then an equal number of black panthers would turn up on trail cameras as the brown panther. But instead we have several documented cases of the brown panther and none of the black panther.

Sure new species of animals are discovered throughout the world. But these areas are dense rainforests and areas isolated from human populations. There is no way black panthers exist anywhere in the United States w/out a single documented case.

I've caught glimpses of things from the deer stand on multiple occaissions that I just new was a deer. Pick up the binoculars and it was a bush blowing in the wind. I saw something this year running through the CRP straight towards me from about 150 yards out. Only got a quick glimpse of it, would have bet my entire wallet it was a coyote. I picked up the gun and got ready to shoot, and three jakes appear at the top of a little ridge, I would have been out of $3.

So I don't think anyone is criticizing those that think they saw a black panther, just letting them know it was a mistaken identity. I know Texas has a decent fox population. I watched one work a hillside, much like a birddog looking for quail, one time in Ozona. I would have bet the house it was the size of a mountain lion and couldn't figure it out. It was on the shaded part of the hill and looked almost black and rather large. I watched him for probably 20 minutes until he got closer to me and then I couldn't see him in the cover. After a few minutes goes by he pops out 20 yards away sitting on top of a rock looking right at me. I couldn't believe how small it was. He continued his search and I probably watched him for another 10 mimnutes or so, so I know it was the same animal.

EVERY black panther case is simply "mistaken" identity, thats not an opinion.

I love when people state they "know" something to be certain when they weren't there just because they haven't seen something.

If I said I saw a flying 20 ft. long fire-breathing dragon from my deer stand this past year, wouldn't you know that I was full of crap, even thought you can't prove that I didn't see it.

Its the same thing. Its impossible to see something that does not exist.

I want to see a pic from a trailcam, and then I will belive..

OK. Same logic here. God doesn't exist. He's an illusion, invented to exercise control over the populace, or to pacify people when they feel dissatisfied with their lot in life. I can prove He doesn't exist because neither I, nor anyone I've ever known, has actually seen him. There are no pictures of him other than some drawings that were taken from people's fantasies or imagination. There's simply no real proof that he exists; therefore, he doesn't exist.

Prove me wrong.

As to fire-breathing dragons... the feasibility of something existing for which there is no concrete proof has to rely at least in some small part upon common sense. As far as I know, there's never been a report of anything resembling (or even remotely related to, biologically) a 20-foot fire-breathing dragon, whereas there have been documented reports (and photographs) of melanistic jaguars and bobcats. And just as there have been documented examples of albino cats, it is reasonable to assume that there also could be melanistic examples.

so what would the cost of a blk panther cost if someone could put you on one????

LMAO

Many on this thread are getting caught up in semantics. Granted there apparently are no black Panthers, but there are black Jaguars and black Leopards in the world. Here's a link to a good article explaining this...
http://www.wtblock.com/wtblockjr/jaguar.htm

As I mentioned the last time this subject came up, the two black cats I've seen, up close (one @ 20 yards) and separated by about 200 yards and 4 months, were very black to the point they had a blue sheen. This photo (below) of a black Jaguar in the Wiki link that Sig posted looks exactly like the cats I've seen. And no, they weren't litte puddy cats. The biggest of the two jumped a barbed wire fence as it was running from me and my fishing buddy and easily reached 6 feet from it's head to it's long tail, though admittedly wasn't as large as those mountain lions posted recently in the Photo forum. Both were also bigger than a jaguarundi and just didn't look like the photos in the jaguarundi link posted here.

Wiki link of a melanistic Jaguar


About a year after we saw the cats (about 1/2 mile from my house, btw), one night all the dogs in the neighborhood were going nuts. They weren't just barking at skunks or coons, they were barking 'scared'. The next morning there was a game warden out in front of my house looking at the ground.

It turns out a lady that lives up the road a ways had called him. Her dog was barking like crazy that night and when she looked out the door, she could tell something was right there in front of the house, but she couldn't see it in the dark. The next morning she found big cat tracks and called the GW.

The GW was backtracking the cat past my house to see where it came from as he had lost the trail going the other direction. The cat was dragging something like a post. At that point the light bulb lit and I realized the cat probably came from the ranch where we had seen the blacks because there was a trapper working the ranch (I had to rescue my Chow out of a live trap there when she didn't come home one night).

So my theory was that the cat had gotten caught in a leg trap and was dragging whatever post the trap was attached to through the neighborhood that night. And it was possible the reason the lady couldn't see the cat when she looked out her door that night was because it was black!

(in hindsight the cat could have been dragging dinner, but if so, it sure was dragging it a long ways)

Of course the Game Warden was skeptical, but when I offered to bring him a dead big black cat, he said, 'no leave them be'. And contrary to popular opinion at the time, he said there was no bounty on cats.

So that's my big black cat story and I'm sticking to it. Believe it or not.

Does anyone know if black panthers are delicious? I'd like to deep fry one if someone finally makes a kill.

Several possibilities to what you witnessed:

1. If the animal that you saw was large black cat, then it was either a jaguar or a leopard (very unlikely, but possible).

If it was a leopard it escaped from a zoo somewhere.

If it was a jaguar, this is entirely possible but extremely unlikely and difficult to believe. The first documented case of a black jaguar in northern Mexico occured ~2004. As far as I'm aware it is the only documented case of a black jaguar in an area that has a known jaguar population. In areas that the black jaguar are most common, they only account for 6% of the total population. So if you did indeed see a black jaguar, where are all of the jaguars with the more common coloration? I mean in areas where they are most common there are 15 yellow jaguars for every 1 black jaguar. How is it that so many people are seeing that 1 black jaguar, but no one is seeing the 15 yellow jaguars?????

2. The animal you saw was a black cat, then you overestimated the size and it was possibly a jaguarundi (unlikely) or even a melanistic bobcat. (Possible, but very unlikely).

3. The animal you saw was a cat, but wasn't black and only appeared to be black (very likley).

4. The animal you saw was black but was not a cat at all (very likely).


There have been people all over that are as serious as you are that saw a black panther. In EVERY single case that was researched and evidence was found involving a black animal, the result was misidentification of a dog.

But the one thing for sure that is not at all possible:

You saw a black mountain lion.

So no, I can't sit here and say what you did see for sure, as there are several possibilities, but I can say without a doubt what you did not see.

Can you tell me without a doubt how not to cook one of them?

Don't want to screw this up for obvious reasons.

Seems like I read in an Outdoor Life Magazine about a guy shooting one in Colorado and cooking a steak from one of the hindquarters. He compared it to a pork steak. If thats the case, there's probably not a bad way to cook it.

Oh man some of yall are really cracking me up. It seems that there are some people that wouldn't believe that there could actually be black panthers even if they saw one themselves, I suppose it is a deeply seated defensive condition because if there were such things as black panthers, those that are so adament about them not exsisting would probably soil their drawers just thinking about walking to and from their deer stand in the dark.

Yes the Fort Worth police still have Panthers on there Badges and thats the story I heard too. They Found one sleeping on the court house steps... Fort Worth is known / was known as panther city...and it is Fort Worths Mascot.

1. There were two cats, one a bit smaller than the one that jumped the fence. I saw it about 4 months later in the same area (200 yds away).

2. The biggest was way too big to be a house cat, bigger than a jaguarundi and didn't look like the photos of jaguarundis I've seen (but I admit, possible). These cats had long tails. Bobcats don't.

3. There was no mistaking it was black. They were blue/black like a Chow dog, as in the photo I posted.

4. No mistaking they were cats. Again, see photo. I got a very good look at both cats and they honestly looked just like that.

If it makes any difference, when I talked to some of the old timers that live in the area, they said they had seen them from time to time as far back as the 1920s.

But that's ok. I don't expect anyone to believe me or my buddy until someone somewhere comes up with some proof.

Good, because I don't believe you.

LOL^^^. I've been hearing about black cats for a loooong time now. And like I said previously, from some very trustworthy folks. However, you'd think that with as many game cams, camcorders and cell phones, that SOMEBODY would have a pic of one by now. I'm not saying they don't exist, but...SHOW ME A PIC ALREADY!

The game camera is what does it for me.

There is zero chance somebody wouldn't have caught one on camera if they existed in Texas. Zero. Big cats cover a lot of ground and would walk through a camera at some point. Cougars do all the time.

That's been posted several times and is definitely a big black cat. Still some folks say they don't exist...

Hello....

I hate to disagree w/ you orn, but that is a brown dog chasing three jakes who are stalking a large fox.......... No I put my glasses on it was just the wind blowing the grass.

House Cat. Next.

yea deer are terrified of housecats. sprigss are you sure that's a housecat. your eyes sure play tricks on you a lot.

What makes you think the deer was scared? Because he was looking at it? I've seen deer under a feeder eating suddenly jerk their heads up and stare at wind blown grass for a minute or so because they got a glimpse of some movement. If it was truely a black panther why all of the editing? What eventually happened? Did the cat just stay over there and the deer stay right by them?

Its a house cat.

I went and looked at the clip again. You are right. There are no deer in that clip. All I see are pheasants chasing butterflies. Now the butterflies do seem alert. But your eyes are definately better than anyone I know of.

Aw... that has to be one of those escaped zoo animals we hear about all the time.

hmmmmm, the video is hmmmmmmmmmmmm idk

After looking at the video, I've come to the conclusion that you guys are right and I was wrong. Black Panther's Definitely exist. After watching the other video I also found this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myh9uvd1nrI&feature=related

Here's another one, in the UK but obviously a huge black panther:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJTJWz0wPdU&feature=related

And another huge black panther from the UK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jleLLOBoPZQ&feature=related





Keep them coming this is certainly entertaining.

House Cat? LMBOFAO!!!! Ho ho ho...Green Giant...

It looks more like a house cat than a jaguar or panther.

And for the record, my neighbor's black cat stalks around my land all the time, and the deer stare at him just like that when he's on the prowl. Just like they stare at hogs, coons, birds, or anything else that isn't another deer. Although they do stare at other deer too, so scratch that.

What's more interesting to me than the question of whether black panthers really exist is why folks seem to have so much invested in being right about their opinion on the subject (and since there's no conclusive, documented proof either way, opinions are all they are). It seems like the only way some folks can feel right is by making someone else wrong. To me, that's pretty sad.

I've got good friends who hold opinions that I don't agree with, but I'd never consider ridiculing them or calling them liars, and I think we'd do well to try and treat strangers the same way. It comes down to having been raised to have enough respect for others to allow that they just might know something I don't, or that the way they interpret something might be every bit as valid and reasonable as the way I'd interpret it. Maybe I was just raised weird, but that's how I tried to raise my own kids as well, and I sure don't regret it.

RonKaye,

I don't think anyone on hear accused anyone of lying. I don't see anyone being ridiculed.

It is only a lie if you know its a lie. If you honestly believe what you are saying then I don't think you are lying, I think you're just mistaken.

People claim Bush lied about WMD's. While he may have been wrong about some types of WMD's, he didn't lie to anybody.

There's a difference.

I just wish people would pay a little more attention to the facts that are out there. For years people reported black panthers in Louisiana. Nearly all of the cases turned out to be black dogs. Yet these people were absolutely 100% certain of what they saw. The reports continued and evidence for dogs continued. So when someone finally did see an actual cougar, no one believed them. Until finally over the last few years there have been 4 or 5 documented cases.

I don't consider any of these people liars, they were mistaken.

How many cougars are killed every year by hunters, vehicles, etc? With all the alleged sitings, you'd think 1 would have turned up dead by now. I was reading yesterday about 1 state, I think it was Iowa. They estimate their cougar population to be only ~300 animals, yet 40 were found dead on the side of the road last year. If there were black mountain lions we would have proof of it.

If there are really jaguars out there why aren't we seeing the more common colored animals?

Someone responded to my post about dragons and mentioned that sometimes you have to use common sense. Well I think there's enough facts out there if we use our common sense. Either people are misjudging the animals size, color, or the animal is not a cat.

My aim is not to belittle people because I know that they are wrong. I just want them to be aware of the facts out there and maybe if they really think about it, they can figure out what they are seeing.

Sprigiss - When someone responds to another's statement by saying, "I don't believe you," most folks would take that as being called a liar (I won't even get started on the whole Bush/WMD subject). And one needn't look very hard to see the ridicule in some of the other posts.

The "common sense" statement was made because there's a big difference between something existing that is similar to a well-established animal (like a jaguar) and the existence of an animal similar to one that exists only in fairy tales (like a fire-breathing dragon).

My issue is not whether "black panthers" actually exist or not. I actually doubt that they do. Rather, my problem has been with individuals who feel so strongly in their beliefs (on many issues) that they demand those beliefs be universally accepted as fact, when in truth, there exists no conclusive proof to support such a definition. Anecdotal (or even statistical) information simply doesn't qualify. It gets even worse when those demands become more important than acting respectfully toward others. That same attitude is what is crippling our government and, in its worst cases, causing kids to kill each other over the color of their clothes. I just think we need to be aware of it, and try to show a bit more respect for each other, even if we disagree strongly about something.

I'm sorry, but statistical evidence does, in fact, qualify as evidence.

If you tell me that there's a 1 in 200,000,000 chance that black panthers live in Texas but have somehow magically avoided each of the 2,000,000 game cameras set, to me that's 99.99999% as good as just saying that they don't exist in Texas.

People that claim to have seen numerous black panthers or jaguars or whatever are, in my mind, people with extremely vivid imaginations or poor vision. I don't think they're bad people, but I think making light-hearted jabs at them is perfectly acceptable.

If I claimed to have seen a polar bear in Texas, a phenomenon that is probably equally as likely (with the chance of it happening being the chance that one escaped from the zoo which is the same probability as seeing a black panther or jaguar), I'd expect to be laughed at a bit.

Lighten up. Black panther sightings are entertaining, in a hilarious sort of way.

Not to even mention that the video (of the black house cat) posted was filmed in Georgia, so it's completely irrelevant to people's claims that they've seen them in Texas.

I could film a picture of a grizzly bear in Colorado, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to claim one is hitting my feeders.

I've never seen one in Texas, but I saw one in south Florida back in '95.

I think a lot of people who claim to have a seen a "black panther" around here are seeing a typical mountain lion hanging in the shadows. They look almost black in the right light (or lack thereof). On a bright day, damn near anything looks black under heavy shade.

Agreed, JVaught.

I saw a deer with a pitch-black face one day and no one believed me. It wasn't a melanistic deer or anything like that. It literally looked like it was wearing a black ski mask.

I was and have been continously made fun of since it happened 6 years ago, but I know what I saw. I also completely understand why my friends are skeptical.

I laugh at myself over it.

"I'm sorry, but statistical evidence does, in fact, qualify as evidence."

Evidence of probability, not of incontrovertible fact. Even the degree that something is "reasonable" does not confer concrete proof as to its truth or falsehood.

See God doesn't exist analogy, above.

BTW - Sorry you've been made fun of. We've all experienced it, and it can be less than fun. Some use that experience as a lesson, preventing them from doing it to others. Just a thought...

I saw a white squirrel in Sherman

If you are talking about Sherman, Tx., then we might have seen the same one. It was at Fairview Park.

And some of us have thicker skin than others and perhaps broader senses of humor. Have to be able to laugh at yourself and perhaps not take it personally when others laugh at you. Especially if you think you've seen black panthers in Texas.

Just a thought.

I had a jaguarundi stop in the middle of the road, mid day, about 20 yards from me in Coleman county. Naysayers be dammed, I know what I saw. I bet most "black Panther" sightings are Jaguarundi's. I hopt to never see a bigfoot or a UFO.

My feelings aren't hurt by this exchange, if for no reason other than the fact that I don't have a dog in the hunt, and have nothing invested one way or the other in the existence or nonexistence of black panthers. My skin's plenty thick, and I've actually been known to laugh once in awhile - just not at others' expense (at least, not since I became an adult).

I think we'd all do well to acknowledge our limitations, and be willing to at least consider that our opinions might not be universally accepted, or even correct. That would be the first step in showing others the kind of respect we'd all like to be shown. When I see folks universally act respectfully toward people with whom they disagree, I'll get right to work "lightening up" on the subject.

BTW - As to your statistical argument: What about very rare diseases that affect only 1 in 100 million people? A few of those diseases (like Ebola, for example) went for many years without being officially documented beyond a very few doctors' diagnoses. According to the logic you're using, the diseases didn't exist. Try telling that to the survivors of the deceased. Or to the CDC, which eventually isolated the virus and named the disease.

I'm willing to admit that I don't know all the answers, and that some of the answers I do know might well be wrong. But I don't buy accepting inconclusive information - no matter how compelling - as absolute and unquestionable truth. It's sloppy science and sloppier debate.

OK, I'm done. Did my best, and now it's time to let it go and enjoy this beautiful day. I seem to remember a .30-06 on my rack that needs sighting in...

It's nothing to feel bad about. Some people just can't seem to understand that big black cats do exist, but for some reason just can't bring themselves to call them panthers.

That name was stuck on cats for many years. No one actually claimed to have seen a black cougar or black mountain lion, just a big black cat the size of a german shepherd that they called "black panther".

What science is saying is that there is no evidence that black cougars/mountain lions exist. That's all - nothing more or less. The non-scientistic people that hold true to that viewpoint paint with such a broad brush that anyone who claims to have seen a "black panther" is auotmatically deemed unfit to rightly identify the creature. I say - so what.

If a person sees a big black cat, I doubt they're going to automatically declare it to be a jaguar or leopard...it's just what it is - a black panther.

So this begs a few questions:
(1) Do big black cats actually exist? Yes, they do.
(2) Are big black cats actually black cougars? I don't know.
(3) Are big black cats called black panthers? Yes, they are.

End of story.

Bingo! Give that silverback a cigar!

No one is claiming they don't exist. We're claiming that they don't exist in Texas.

Big difference.

I'm sorry - they probably do exist in zoos.

I grew up in Gainesville, and I have heard of many sightings of (black panthers) I'm not saying they don't exist here, BUT if they do? why has there never been one shot or stepped in front of a game camera?????????????

check this out and decide for yourself
straight from the texas parks and wildlife
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_br_w7000_0255_04_02.pdf

From the article you posted:



Now - I hope we can stop having these circular arguments...

See the above quote from TPWD that I posted.

I think the problem here is fabricated...

That article almost perfectly supports my views on the subject:

The odds of someone having seen a black panter (jaguar) are roughly equal to the odds of one having escaped from a zoo or other facility and showing up at your hunting lease. Oh, and also while being unreported by the zoo or facility, as the article also states that there is no evidence of that ever having happened.

Impossible? No. Super, incredibly, extremely, less-than-the-odds-of-winning-the-lottery-twice, likely? Yup.

I don't believe you. You probably saw a housecat. ............................ Wait you weren't hunting over on sprigsss place were you. Lot of wierd sightings over there too.

I wouldn't expect you to believe me, although seeing a deer with a black face is probably about 1000 times as likely as seeing a black panther. A black-faced deer is a ridiculous claim, though again, not nearly as ridiculous as someone claiming to have seen a black panther.

And I would not be so presumptious as to tell good honest men who have hunted all their lives like sig, orn and many others, that they should believe you and not their own lying eyes.

No one can prove a negative, that's for sure. This argument has gone on since Hatchet Jack lived in a cave up at the Musselshell with a female panther...

LMAO^^^

Good luck with that, Orn. Beliefs are too frequently impervious to logic.

Good grief, man.

I don't think they're lying. I think they honestly and truly believe that they saw black panthers. I also believe with all of my heart and every piece of evidence available to mankind that they're incorrect. I don't find any harm in it or harbor any animosity towards them - I think it's awesome, unbridled optimism that is fairly widespread in the world of hunting and fishing. That doesn't make the claim any more accurate, but I'm not calling them bad people or liars.

If someone says, "I saw a black panther.", my response is, "No you didn't."

And then I'd probably follow it up with, "Now let's grab another beer, my imaginary animal seeing friend."

You're taking this a bit personally I think.

Naw, that was a baseball bat.

cameron I am not taking this at all personally. As you can tell from my wiseazz replies, I have maintained a sense of humor about it. I don't mean any of it on a personal level. I entered this fracous only to poke back a bit at those that were poking most. And I can assure you one thing.
















With awesome, unbridled optimism I would take you up on that beer

Here's an old poem I wrote back in the day when tensions were high about this topic...

I was thumbing a ride to Huntersville
Had my rifle on my back
When a panther walked out in front of me
With hide that was shiny black

I jerked the strap from my shoulder
Levered in another round
When he froze just like a statue
And stared without a sound

The moonshadows played with light
As I focused through the fog
Down the barrel of my rifle
I coulda swore it was a hog

No grunts, no squeals, no pungent smell
As his breath in tendrils rose
Against a winter sky so cold
It would chill an Eskimo

Then I lowered that rifle right away
As he crossed the center line
And leapt the ditch on the other side
And cleared a Budweiser sign

I often wonder what it was I saw
That cold winter’s night
Thumbing that ride to Huntersville
In the foggy waning moonlight

Black Panther, myth or real
I’m sure you all want to know
Well I just can’t say and that’s for sure
Since I ain’t got no pics to show

But if ever you see a big black cat
As hefty as a blue tick hound
Grab the camera and turn it on
And pass them pics around!

GREAT NEWS!!! BREAKING STORY!!!

I got footage of the rare black-faced deer I saw on my game camera. I think this puts my claim to rest...

Thank God!

Thats not a deer, its a jackalope. Everybody knows that black-faced jackalopes aren't all that uncommon. He just looks bigger because he's so far away.

ARE YOU CALLING ME A LIAR??!!!

I am not arguing the science behind it, nor do I call it a "panther".... An old crazy man on here convinced me to only refer to it as "large black cat".

I have no idea if it's a panther, cougar, jaguar, ocelot, jaguarandi (as noted above).... I do believe there's something out there that is a "big black cat"....