GOSH! Some folks won't miss a single opportunity to brag on their pup - imagine that! Seriously, man... I'm glad you're so pleased with her... and I love that photo, anyway! Who names a female pup "Dude", anyway? lol...

Oh, ok. Well then if you want to be sure, just for your own sake, go thru the U of Minn website. I hope it comes back negative for ya, though! Let us how everything else is working out... hopefully he'll start calming down.

Why not, it works very well, I've been doing it for years, its in all the training guides etc...

Other than using a choker with a short lead that you can step on to stop the jumping, not sure what to tell you.

You asked for advice

No, I didn't ask for advice. I gave advice to the TS, and Eric the j-hole jumps in telling me what I do doesn't work, and I should knee the chit out of my dog instead. Why am I going to risk injuring my dog if what I do works? I'm sure I could dig up PLENTY of training books that say to ignore your dog when it jumps...because it also works...without kneeing your dog.

I don't see any of his posts that were directed to you until you smarted off to him

Clear now? Thanks for your help.

I just received another inquiry for details on EIC, so I thought I'd update this post where there had been some conversation about it. The following information is provided by the Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory of the University of Minnesota, which has performed some extensive research on the condition:

"The syndrome of exercise intolerance and collapse (EIC) is being observed with increasing frequency in young adult Labrador Retrievers. Most, but not all, affected dogs have been from field-trial breedings. Black, yellow and chocolate Labradors of both sexes are affected, with the distribution of colors and sexes closely reflecting the typical distribution in field trials...

Affected dogs exhibiting symptoms of collapse are usually described as being extremely fit, muscular, prime athletic specimens of their breed with an excitable temperament and lots of drive."

It appears there is a lot of misinformation and confusion floating around about EIC and some would have you believe that EVERY dog needs to be screened. However, since it is a congenital condition brought about by a mutation in fieldtrail bloodlines, a totally unrelated dog with closed bloodlines has no way of attaining it. It is also a relatively new affliction to the Labrador Retriever breed that is closely associated with high strung, hyper dogs which is more common in field trial bloodlines.

" ...pedigree analysis strongly supports an autosomal recessive mode of inheritance.... DNA harvested from the blood of affected dogs and their relatives was used to perform a full genome scan at the University of Minnesota in order to identify a genetic marker for EIC, and to find the genetic mutation causing EIC. In 2007 the chromosomal locus (site) of the mutation was found on chromosome 9, and the genetic mutation responsible for susceptibility to EIC was identified. This is a mutation in the gene for dynamin-1, a protein expressed only in the brain and spinal cord where it plays a key role in forming synaptic vesicles containing neurotransmitters. DNM1 is not required during low level neurological stimulation, but when a heightened stimulus creates a heavy load on release of CNS neurotransmitters (as with intense exercise, a high level of excitement and perhaps increased body temperature) DNM1 is essential for sustained synaptic transmission in the brain and spinal cord."

This is why some of the affected dogs need only become excited to suffer from an episode of EIC.

For more complete information on EIC or to download a brochure, refer to this website by the Diagnostic laboratory at the University of Minnesota:
http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/taylor2008/home.html

To help put this into perspective, in the Quarter Horse world, two of the greatest bloodlines to ever grace the breed were afflicted by two deadly conditions brought about by genetic mutation:

HYPP is a deadly condition which attacks the central nervous system of the horse. It is a genetically recessive trait. Any horse hailing from the Poco Bueno bloodline is required by the Foundation Quarter Horse Association to be screened for this condition. For horses not of this bloodline, screening is deemed to be unnecessary.

HERDA is another deadly condition afflicting young colts, and causes the skin to literally separate from the tissue beneath it. Any horse hailing from the Impressive bloodline is considered to be at risk for this genetic condition.

However, not every horse in the breed is screened for HERDA and HYPP simply by virtue of being a quarter horse. Logically, the connection to a genetic mutation has been drawn and screening is limited to only those lines which have the potential to be affected.

I hope this helps to clear up some confusion and concerns about EIC, as well as to point folks in the right direction for accurate information on the topic.

Except Ironspike your miss quoting and I hope not on purpose...

Here's the link if anyone is interested in reading up on this disease. It's been found equally in field and show lines.

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vdl/prod/groups/cvm/@pub/@cvm/@vdl/documents/asset/cvm_asset_117797.pdf

Also don't think breeding stock shouldn't be tested. They can be non-symptomatic of the disease and still be affected with it.

All Breeding Stock Must Be Tested!!!

Angie

Genetic hyperactivity and EIC are no more related then hyperactivity and elbow dysplasia...

Angie

All depends. Labs of yesteryear weren't running extreme sports either. Today's labs that are bred for any fancy will sometimes be the extreme. There's lots of dogs being bred with good temperments and a BRAIN and high prey drive. Labs of old were as tough as boot leather, in comparison to today's lab.

An EIC affected dog can be managed. It all depends what it's "triggers" are.

Angie

I personally don't like to squeeze a dogs feet or knee them in the chest. The reason being I need to find a method that anyone can use on the dog to get the dog to listen to them. Not everyone wants to or can do either move.

Ian Dunbar has a great way to teach an "off" command. He's got a dvd called the Sirius Method of Puppy Training that you can get at sit/stay.com. It's $25.00 but what you learn in it is worth 10x that. A 3 year old can control the dog with that command when trained properly with the child.

Try retrieving with the puppy just in the hallway of your house, that way it always has to come back to you. Also teach the "here" command like the dvd show's you that way you won't be treating your dog during retrieving.

Angie

You'll have to argue that with the University of Minnesota. My quote is a 'cut & paste' right off their website.

I think you meant "...you're misquoting..." At any rate, my quote is a 'cut & paste' right off their website.



AFFECTED dogs can be asymptomatic and still pass along the disease. However, to be affected, the genetic mutation must be passed along genetically. So, a bloodline must be crossed with an affected bloodline in order to contaminate the gene pool with the mutation.

There are then, two ways to make sure the pups are not affected:
a) Screen all potentially affected stock or 'unknowns' (if one's breeding program includes such stock);
b) Breed from a a known, unaffected genetic pool

Yes. It can be. But it can also suffer from episodes of the syndrome and it can also die from it. There are numerous issues associated with 'managing' such a dog.

I don't disagree with you... But proper documentaion has to be shown by the breeder that their breeding stock is clear via parentage. I personally don't like doing that. Hips, eyes, elbows, EIC and CNM certificates should be had on current breeding stock. It's the price you pay as a breeder to do what you do. Considering what you make on a litter, it's small potatoes to pay for these tests. Though some breeders would rather not know the status of their stock because they don't want to scrap their program and buy new. It happens. It's very shortsighted but it happens.

Angie

Ahhh yea,,, but what's the owners choice??? Putting the dog down??? Giving it away, (that's right pass your problems onto someone else) or take it to a shelter???

I don't understand your point?

Angie

I didn't understand yours, either, quite frankly... but if I had a severely affected dog then yes, I would most certainly put him down in a humane manner. But just like with many hyper dogs, managing an EIC affected dog often puts the owner in the unfortunate position of relying on someone who is accustomed to doing so. Since we are talking about breeder responsibilities here, why don't we address the breeder's responsiblity to produce sane, calm, attentive, focused, tractable, trainable dogs... the kind that the average HUNTER - not a pro - can train. The kind from yesteryear that is 'tough' and uncomplicated (I believe you acknowledged the toughness of these 'old school dogs'?)

My point? There appears to be a self perpetuating system here... produce hyper and EIC affected dogs, then profess to be one who can manage them, then mask the symptoms through 'extreme' (I believe that's a word you chose to describe such dogs?) training techniques, then reproduce the dogs based on their performance (a result of training the average hunter has neither the time nor inclination to provide and perhaps not the budget to purchase), then make oneself available to 'manage' the affected animals...

I suppose my point would be that I would rather produce a dog that the average HUNTER - not a pro trainer - can train and manage, with his readily available time, resources and skills, if he so chose.

Angie, it appears you presume the issue comes down to finances. That is rather presumptuous... I'm quite certain that money is not the primary motivating factor for every breeder. Your second assumption is that when it comes to health clearances, breeders are paralyzed by FEAR??? I honestly don't think breeding dogs - or any animal, for that matter - is for the faint of heart. At least not for those that have been around for a while and have seen the good, the bad and the ugly of breeding.

My black lab is EIC affected. I found him a new home. No episodes. His trigger is the intense pressure and training. Other than that, he is fine. Made a perfect dog for a law student. Dog is not hyperactive what so ever either, but comes from field trial lines top and bottom from front to back. I still think that the labs today on average aren't anymore or any less hyper than those of the past. It was a different time back then, more sportsmen and country folks had them than your regular family home. The homes of today don't treat the dogs like the homes of yesterday. I think there are too many factors to settle on that the dogs are more hyper today than before. And all these hyperactive dogs that everyone talks about from the field lines live at home with their owners perfectly fine like the average calm lab because they are disciplined, obedient dogs. They do not have hyperactivity, they just have lots of energy and the want to work.

Eric W.

well this is natures way of saying a labrador is intended to be a companion to people and a HUNTER!!!

because when I step in a wet spot of pee on the carpet with my socks on I can say DUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!!! your killin me

LMAO, never thought about it. Dude is a cool name. Duuuude, quit buggin me, etc. LOL

Nogeese,,,, what are you talking about???

Angie

I think he is referencing my post about the labs of yesterday v. today and who they lived with.

Eric W.

I am saying that Labs are made to hunt not take tests and trying to alter that is why this problem has come up.