That is what Im talking about! When I was a young man we had deer out the butt around here. We had a 4 deer limit and didnt need doe permits. I would venture a guess that we now have 1/3 what we had. On the flip side, when I was younger deer werent that plentiful on the Grandparents place in Collingsworth Cty., now we see a hundred at a time in the peanut fields. I dont know the answer, but deer in my part of the world is in step decline.


Dallam County! God's country.....

not having to do with ARs, but: So with that in mind ^^^^^^..... what do you think massive mld doe harvests on low fence/no fence properties does to that property and surrounding properties (many on the same program) in east tx, where no one has a clue how many deer are on a property. I kind of chuckle when I see the biologist ask to see the observation cards and know that someone has 5 does that come to their feeder every time it goes off and they count them every weekend, every sitting, and so do the people that hunt close to them. 5 does can turn into 50 in a hurry.

Well... the refrain I've always heard is "If I didn't shoot it, the neighbor would!" That's basically the same as saying "I wish he were bigger."

Now they can't shoot them, at least not until they get old enough to maybe develop a sense of wariness. (assuming some make it past spike stage)

We all let a beautiful young 8 pointer walk this year. While he was legal, we agreed he would be so much better next year. He made it through the season, but if he doesn't stop with those "Hartford of Connecticut" poses, he'll be dead before gun season rolls around (and we're not a bow hunting lease).

Exactly, and that's what happened... then the "50" get the stuff shot out of them in a hurry, most spikes too, and what few good deer are dumb enough to walk out in the open...I think the years of AR's have sent Fannin and Red River and others back to the early 80's...

No one else is biting Curly, so I'll wade in....


Surely you aren't referring to Texas before the AR's started with it's low harvest rate (#1 in country), it's low fawning rate (#1 in country), it's poor yearling survival rate (uhm, #1), the growth of hunting in Texas compared to the decline in most states, the $$$ spent on hunting (#1 in country), the taxes on hunting (#1 in the country), or the hordes of people flocking to Texas to hunt south texas whitetails????

Naaaaaaaaaah, can't be... there was no good hunting in Texas before AR's.




I knew a coach once that got fired. His 8th grade basketball team didn't win but a few games. His test score were great, he was a model employee, loyal, honest, hard working. The two years before he lost 3 game of 20 one year and none the previous year... of course he had two that could dribble and 3 six footers plus on an 8th grade team.

The next year he inherited a group of 5'4" as the tallest fat white kids. They worked hard, won a few more than the year before, but coach got fired. Apparently he could not coach. He had 3 school board members kids on one team. They fired him.

The next year they fired the freshman coach. The next 3 years after that they had a new varsity coach every year. Dang coaches couldn't coach a lick.

Was it the coach ?(Management/harvest) Or was it the genetics and the environment? Who really needed to be fired was the sperm donor's for those kids.

Those are the same people that think AR's are going to make 150 B&C&P&Y&BS class deer grow like wild in NE Texas. Can it happen once in a while, yes,but not often. Do state champion football and basketball teams come from the Panhandle or far south texas valley or Big Bend? Once in a while, not often (Yes I know Sudan and Odessa Permian, Sudan was a fluke and Odessa is a big town)...

It has more to do with genetics than anything else.

Sig22Fan.....It is 80 acres off the Sulpher River. Part of a big ranch that was subdivided into 40, 60, and 80 lots.

Used to own 65 acres sold it but I still hunt with one of my neighbors. I sold it prior to the AR's because It was'nt worth the money for shooting 6 points and beign lucky to ge one of those.

There are 100 different land owners owning roughly 10,000 acres. You can see how when you have a place like that with landowners, friends and relatives all hunting how scarce any buck is much less a big buck. So it worked for that area for sure.

I imagine there have been alot of deer thrown in the river due to half an inch short though.

The confusion is because you are thinking in terms of different *types* of deer, and sig and us "antis" mean that more deer (numbers) can be killed now than before.

Well its embedded in their thought processes, they are horn hunters, which is cool with me, but they don't think about deer, they think about buck deer. And really, they can hunt horns all they want, but its the horn directed regulations that are hurting the overall deer in our areas.

I do hope I am wrong, I hope the woods next year are filled with 150 class deer since it's year 5 or 6 or 7 or AR's...

You guys are nit picking at why we don't like AR's just looking for some way to spin it so you can say oh it's not AR's its tag numbers, its your neighbors, its your county...... blah blah blah

The problem lies with the TPWD's half [censored] way of attacking a problem that may or not be there. The fact that they are even getting involved that deep into the hunting process, Is Pure BS.They aren't the states deer!

Its a typical government ploy for money, spun as a problem, with a crap solution that creates a bigger problem!

Okay, so I will explain this one time. With ARs, you cannot shoot a certain number of bucks, no matter how many of few deer are present. The problem is that even with one buck allowed, since the area was overhunted, as is clearly the case in the small tract, East Texas area, that too many bucks were being shot.

Now, you are allowed to shoot 2 bucks, but there is a large percentage that are protected. You could bring in twice as many hunters, but they could still NEVER SHOOT THOSE BUCKS. This is evident, since so many of you are saying "this is the first year I haven't shot a buck, but watched 10 illegal bucks go!" or whatever the heck you are spewing.

Lesson over.

1420 here, but not smart enough to stop feeding these trolls.

Are you kidding me?!?!

LOL

Oh man, WOW.

ARs were even before this place existed, and most people were on here starting 3-4 years ago, yourself included, 2008.

Okay, I'm out of this thread. You can't fix STUPID.

So does this mean that the "problem" of overhunting is the case in all 113 AR counties ?? I'd like to see the evidence of that too.




So this overhunting problem....Has TPWD figure out a way for less than 13" buck to breed with each other? Since everything else is legal and overhunted.

Justin, your right you cant fix stupid cause if ya could you would figure out why we dont see any deer anymore! Go from 1 buck and no does [unless you are a bowhunter] to be able to kill 2 bucks and 2 does. How hard is it to figure out? Take out 2 bucks and 2 does wich now you will kill off there would be young and when the deer population wasnt great to begin with and be able to take that spike wich may or may not get wider than 13in and the 2 or 3 year old that does make the 13in, what does that leave? a few bucks that wont ever be 13in min. and no does to breed. Exactly what the last 2 seasons have been. Let me know if ya need a slide rule or a calculater!

You're right, you can't, that's why we still have ARs.

BourbanLegend,

Why don't you just get on the MLD program??.....then the AR's no longer apply.

MLD is the way to go

They are the states deer.

I don't think so, but I could be wrong. What are you basing this information on?

truthful on mld3.... when tpw accepts your management plan based on age criteria, it chunks ARs out the window. Usually in that management plan is a penalty for not shooting bucks matching the 3.5+ criteria. (Though a penalty may be stated, it doesn't actually mean you have to follow through with it)

MLD can be the way to go if the herd can handle it.

Because i was taught to fight for what i believe is right and not take and easy out because it's easy.

Really? Last time I checked our creator made these beautiful creatures not the state of texas.

As true as your statement may be, the state owns the deer.