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Yesterday at 07:47 PM
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 Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1190960
01/22/10 07:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698
Hoytman
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698 |
Hey sig i resemble that dumbredneck crack! LOL. I bet if we went to a 1 buck and 1 doe season we could do the same as the ar regs or better. I would be happy if they made it over 13in on the buck and 1 doe. I could get my meat and the city boys can have there horns! Problem solved for everyone.
(Sig Pic to be no more than 125 pixels tall)
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Tye]
#1190961
01/22/10 07:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,220 |
Data is Data and Facts are Facts. Whether the deer lives in New York or Texas. Gotta hate true facts and results dont ya. Not just a few opinions that are based on one small given piece of property. Nuff Said. And 600 HF acres make a land barron, deer manager/authority ?
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?  TPWD
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1190967
01/22/10 07:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,550
kyotee1
Extreme Tracker
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10 pointer well said. I'm a landowner and hate 'em for many of the same reasons. Leaving TPWD reasons out if I can restrain myself: 
- I cant stand someone to legislate what a trophy is to me. I shoot what I consider a trophy.
....
- "I usually let family and friends that cant afford to lease hunt the properties I own. Plain and simple."
...
- As far as mounting a deer when has that been a requirement to shoot at a buck (I have at least five mounted but doubt I will ever spend any money on getting another one mounted no matter how large).
We generally pass on younger deer on our place. We have mounted several, the boys will probably get a few mounts in their hunting careers. I doubt if I will. However if it gets down to getting some venison, it is does, and might even be (or used to be) a small buck, or rag-horn, i.e. when the season was nearing the end, Kids first buck, etc. It is not devistating (in fact is helpful) to the herd take a mounth off the pasture, and it doesn't have to be 4.5 yrs old with big horns. I don't hate AR's but don't agree with them completely... Agree with the most part what Phish & 10 pointer just recently said. I like to see deer and 'wish' that the restriction would allow those deer that will NEVER have a 13" or greater inside spread to be taken, mainly the 4, 5, 6 and 7 pts. and the narrow-tall racked bucks. The only thing with being able to do, not all hunters CAN DETERMINE what a true cull buck is or one that needs to be removed from the herd. I don't have the pleasure as some counties during the General Season to be able to harvest antlerless deer, unless you have a permit, MLD only. Sure, I can take them during the Archery Only season and can use a crossbow to do so, just didn't this year. AR's are not the 'cure-all' regulation, and no regulation will be welcomed by all hunters, but it's sure better than what was in our county before the restriction was implemented...you just didn't see many deer, especially bucks of any kind. If it had antlers it was shot and usually the first forked-racked buck. It was a 1 buck county, 2 antlerless (by permit only) for decades. Still no doe days since the antlerless deer density will not justify them and getting MLD permits isn't all that easy. I wasn't thrilled when they added a buck tag but only for 'must have an unbranched antler on at least one side', thus the true cull bucks could still walk. No one regulation is perfect...this one does have a flaw in the cull bucks or ones that will never make 13" or better, but we are seeing MORE deer and higher density of bucks now with the regulation. Kyotee.... good civil points, thanks... What if in your county, with the new regulations in four years, you saw fewer and fewer deer overall? Would you still consider it better than the previous regulation? Under the 1b/2d by permit only system we had in NE Texas (in place since the dissolution of zones several years ago)... our deer numbers were increasing... so what has happened to change that from increasing to the best it's ever been 5 years ago to as bad as I can remember it (over 25 years worth)? I agree the "spike" allotment is a poor method of management, for both antlers or sex ration; And remember they can take 2 spikes if they choose.... And you are ever so correct in pointing out that MLD is usually not an option for smaller east texas tracts... Absolutely not, if the deer density was decreasing, then the bag limit would need to be changed, probably going back to a 3 deer county, no more than 1 buck and 2 antlerless (if allowed during the General Season w/o permits).
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: PHishTX]
#1190976
01/22/10 07:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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Carroll and his biologists cited Dooley County, Georgia, as an example. The first to implement an antler restriction on a county-wide basis, Dooley County adopted a 15-inch outside spread antler restriction, a move that dramatically improved hunting. Same old TPWD  Presentation. Pass the Kool-aid It improved hunting (for horns) !!! Now where does it say it improved the made up problem of "Age Sturcture". "SPIKES .....FOR THE KIDS ??? . We don't see but 1-2 spikes a year. And those are babies. A spike is probably an equal percentage of the herd as the Upper-end bucks. That is like asking kids to wait for a (pick a number) 150". That is not doing the kids any favors. No son, you can't shoot that one, some guys in Austin say he's not the right one... Here's a alternative plan.... submit your cell phone pictures to Dr. Kroll in Kerrville via text message, he can say yes or no and then us dumb hunters don't have to age deer in the woods.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: kyotee1]
#1190977
01/22/10 07:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
Absolutely not, if the deer density was decreasing, then the bag limit would need to be changed, probably going back to a 3 deer county, no more than 1 buck and 2 antlerless (if allowed during the General Season w/o permits).
Kyotee1, according to these guys, ARs and bag limits are the same thing and cannot be changed separately from each other. 
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Justin T]
#1190984
01/22/10 07:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
What is the record number of pages for ARs?
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1190985
01/22/10 07:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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The average buck in Pennsylvania weighs 180 pounds.
So now we should want our deer that big.
So from now on we won't be allowed to shoot any deer under 180 pounds.
Will that work?
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: ETXbuckman]
#1190988
01/22/10 07:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274 |
Oh forgot one thing! why not close the season for 2 years so yall can have your big bucks and i can have my population back. We would all be happy and could play nice on the computer. If I had a vote a would spend it in favor of shutting it down for couple of years. I do not see the deer we had in the 80's and 90's and all that was before AR. Good luck getting that one through. I think thats one proposal we could ALL stand against. No it will never come to pass, but I dont see the numbers like we once did. Am I the only one that thinks there are fewer deer than we once had?
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1190993
01/22/10 07:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
Is that 180 W&M ?
weights and measures
Do they have a record book for that?
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: A.B.]
#1191005
01/22/10 07:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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Oh forgot one thing! why not close the season for 2 years so yall can have your big bucks and i can have my population back. We would all be happy and could play nice on the computer. If I had a vote a would spend it in favor of shutting it down for couple of years. I do not see the deer we had in the 80's and 90's and all that was before AR. Good luck getting that one through. I think thats one proposal we could ALL stand against. No it will never come to pass, but I dont see the numbers like we once did. Am I the only one that thinks there are fewer deer than we once had? ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions. I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks. what more do u want? i can say that it has helped out all of the places i hunt. and i hunt in 4 different counties, all under ARs 2 of which were one of the original AR counties. and the others added the next year. However, we dont get to take any does with out a permit except during archery season.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191013
01/22/10 07:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274 |
I want the deer herd we had in 87. It is that simple.
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191018
01/22/10 07:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions.
I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks.
what more do u want? That poll data is just like the TPWD surveys and data. The alleged problem (Age structure) is being ignored in the analysis. Now I see why you are in lock-step with TPWD.
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: A.B.]
#1191021
01/22/10 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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I want the deer herd we had in 87. It is that simple. I'd rather have 97, but I am with you.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: A.B.]
#1191022
01/22/10 07:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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I want the deer herd we had in 87. It is that simple. lol, sorry to say this, but u would be the minority. i cant tell u what our deer herd was like back in 87 as i wasnt walkin then lol. But considering no one really hunted our land (for the most part) from about 85-97 i dont imagine much changed.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191025
01/22/10 07:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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[quote=ETXbuckman][quote=aggiebrahma]
No it will never come to pass, but I dont see the numbers like we once did.
Am I the only one that thinks there are fewer deer than we once had? ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions. I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks. what more do u want? i can say that it has helped out all of the places i hunt. and i hunt in 4 different counties, all under ARs 2 of which were one of the original AR counties. and the others added the next year. However, we dont get to take any does with out a permit except during archery season. Brandon, you and I agree on most things, and I will complement you here.... Your poll is just as scientifically conducted as TPWD age data gathering system...
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: PHishTX]
#1191027
01/22/10 07:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions.
I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks.
what more do u want? That poll data is just like the TPWD surveys and data. The alleged problem (Age structure) is being ignored in the analysis. Now I see why you are in lock-step with TPWD. i agree, the whole age structure debate is kind of ignorant. but we do have older deer. i never said i was going to base those polls on age structure, i agree it is a type of excuse that tpwd used. btw "Now I see why you are in lock-step with TPWD" what exactly are u implying?
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1191031
01/22/10 07:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104 |
[quote=ETXbuckman][quote=aggiebrahma]
No it will never come to pass, but I dont see the numbers like we once did.
Am I the only one that thinks there are fewer deer than we once had? ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions. I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks. what more do u want? i can say that it has helped out all of the places i hunt. and i hunt in 4 different counties, all under ARs 2 of which were one of the original AR counties. and the others added the next year. However, we dont get to take any does with out a permit except during archery season. Brandon, you and I agree on most things, and I will complement you here.... Your poll is just as scientifically conducted as TPWD age data gathering system... lol true. but i did a poll with hunters responding. i mean its data, and data is data except i didnt have a way to skew it. and i was going from people's perceptions.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1191034
01/22/10 07:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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OK, if you're for doing whatever the state says will help the deer herd.....
What if they say "No hunting for 3 seasons"?
Are you going to blindly accept that or ask why? Are you going to accept "Because we said so" as a scientific answer?
Those that have been here know I am all for CHECK STATIONS for every deer.... (oh, that's too much trouble; the state can't afford it; people can't age deer by teeth; would take too much training; I would have to drive).
But we'd have better data to judge our progress or lack of it by.
What about buck-doe ratio? You don't get a buck tag with a license purchase. You have to bring in your dead doe to get a buck tag for that county...... try that one.
Some of these aid the science of it. They can be verified by others. They can be done for little or no costs.
I'd attend a teeth aging class by TPWD experts. I'll volunteer to man a station for them. I'll allow my business to be a check in station....
Will you?
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191036
01/22/10 07:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
btw "Now I see why you are in lock-step with TPWD" what exactly are u implying?
That you agree with TPWD on ARs, and 1+1=3.
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191038
01/22/10 07:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274 |
I want the deer herd we had in 87. It is that simple. lol, sorry to say this, but u would be the minority. i cant tell u what our deer herd was like back in 87 as i wasnt walkin then lol. But considering no one really hunted our land (for the most part) from about 85-97 i dont imagine much changed. I know you didnt know, I do, I was 16 at the time and deer were thick. We had 1 to 8 on our land in 87, now we have 1 to 26 and we have less hunting pressure than before. Being the minority doesnt bother me. I know of what I speak. Like you, Im not someone who is here on the land a few times a year. I live on it and work it everyday. Im thinking AR and no doe days. Joshua would kill me if I had a hand in closing his deer season for a day, much less a year.
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Hoytman]
#1191042
01/22/10 07:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
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Hey sig i resemble that dumbredneck crack! LOL. I bet if we went to a 1 buck and 1 doe season we could do the same as the ar regs or better. I would be happy if they made it over 13in on the buck and 1 doe. I could get my meat and the city boys can have there horns! Problem solved for everyone. If they can convince us there's a problem, we;d do a lot to help solve it.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1191044
01/22/10 07:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,274 |
I want the deer herd we had in 87. It is that simple. I'd rather have 97, but I am with you. On that one I have to go by what they tell me. I was still in KS at the time and only hunted a few times when we came home, mostly for ducks.
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: Closed Traverse]
#1191046
01/22/10 07:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
OP
duck & cover
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,631 |
[quote=ETXbuckman][quote=aggiebrahma]
No it will never come to pass, but I dont see the numbers like we once did.
Am I the only one that thinks there are fewer deer than we once had? ive run two different polls here on the forum. one was If u had been under ARs for 3 yrs, did u see more deer (larger pop.) a Vast majority voted that they had more deer than they did before the restrictions. I also ran a poll of wether or not people were sseeing larger bucks. the vast majority said they were seeing larger bucks. what more do u want? i can say that it has helped out all of the places i hunt. and i hunt in 4 different counties, all under ARs 2 of which were one of the original AR counties. and the others added the next year. However, we dont get to take any does with out a permit except during archery season. Brandon, you and I agree on most things, and I will complement you here.... Your poll is just as scientifically conducted as TPWD age data gathering system... lol true. but i did a poll with hunters responding. i mean its data, and data is data except i didnt have a way to skew it. and i was going from people's perceptions. You really don't want me to criticize your polls right?
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1191056
01/22/10 07:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,777
texasd
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,777 |
all i can say is glad we dont have any restrictions on antlers.....
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Re: ANTLER RESTRICTIONS
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#1191057
01/22/10 07:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 17,104
Closed Traverse
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OK, if you're for doing whatever the state says will help the deer herd.....
What if they say "No hunting for 3 seasons"?
Are you going to blindly accept that or ask why? Are you going to accept "Because we said so" as a scientific answer?
Those that have been here know I am all for CHECK STATIONS for every deer.... (oh, that's too much trouble; the state can't afford it; people can't age deer by teeth; would take too much training; I would have to drive).
But we'd have better data to judge our progress or lack of it by.
What about buck-doe ratio? You don't get a buck tag with a license purchase. You have to bring in your dead doe to get a buck tag for that county...... try that one.
Some of these aid the science of it. They can be verified by others. They can be done for little or no costs.
I'd attend a teeth aging class by TPWD experts. I'll volunteer to man a station for them. I'll allow my business to be a check in station....
Will you? never said i was for govt getting into our business. in fact, im very against it. all i have stated is that for the most part, ARs have helped the deer pop. and have enabled many deer to get larger. Im against a lot of game laws, i just dont believe they should be able to tell u what to do to the extent like some laws are. for example the "legal shotgun" law i think it is dumb. but i abide by it and i have no idea if it has helped the dove pop. but i doubt it. do i think they should be able to tell u not to shoot a 12in deer??? no i dont, but the fact is that in the areas I have stated, they have improved the situation. Also, there are a lot of other laws that most of us would see as imposing the long arm of the law into our private lil cookie jar like the ones u stated above. When ARs came out, i did not like em, not because of a political reason like i do now, but because i thought they were crap. now i dont think they are crap, but dont like them from a political stand point lol. and as for the last request, no, no i would not.
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